Directly placed template weapon in CC

[Archer]

Side arms are the only shooting weapons that use their damage in CC as you can shoot with them

PER THE RULE BOOK (section 21.3, page 131) Rifles are only adhoc clubs.

  And to pull from the page you quoted (page 120) it states:

Weapon Damage

  The Damage of a Weapon is dependant upon the situation.  While in Close Combat, a weapons damage is derived from the Strength (ST) value of the model striking with it (unless its a Sidearm, which relies on the bullets to do the damage). The better or more deadly the Melee weapon is, the greater the bonus to the model's ST value.

Word for word and it clearly... CLEARLY... answers the question of the damage a non-Sidearm firearm does in CC.

  As I have maintained all along... and Aldrien- thank you for providing the page in which to properly give you the official rule for that.  I had forgotten about that particular page.

  Care to dispute that one? 

btw- no worries on the Smite- you believe I am wrong in what I am saying...thought I offended you.  You acted accordingly, which is fine.  I have not acted in that fashion towards you as I am not offended.  Fustrated that you don't understand the rule on this but it happens.  Granted, it is a bit scattered over seperate pages but all support each other.

  Remember, FAQ's are only meant a supplimental rulings for things believed to be misunderstood/obscure and even THEY (the FAQ rulings) can be wrong; I've helped correct more than a few entries early on.

[Dr. Nick]

  Care to dispute that one? 

i never wanted to dispute, but state my opinion that ST+Bayonet is too low, imho.

btw- no worries on the Smite- you believe I am wrong in what I am saying...

no, i donīt belive you are wrong. and if the (revised) faq says ST+bayonet bonus i will play it like that
(since i never use bayonets )

i smited you because (how) you said that not reading enough was the reason for that argument.

Fustrated that you don't understand the rule on this.

Remember, FAQ's are only meant a supplimental rulings for things believe to be misunderstood/obscure and even THEY can be wrong.

i understand that rule, but since noone mentioned an error in the faq, i assumed it was still correct

also, i only cited the faqs, because i wanted to make clear that the argument may be based upon the faqs phrase:

Bayonettes do full listed weapon damage

now, donīt get me wrong, i am not angry or something!!

just think, many others had the two FAQs in the head and thatīs why noone thought it would be obviouse that ST+bonus is right.
(is it?? )

cuīs

[Archer]

i smited you because (how) you said that not reading enough was the reason for that argument.

  No worries...  is why I inserted "Sarcastic Tone" as it was meant as a humorous note; I knew it sounded as sarcasm but sometimes there is no better way to get a point accross.

  And Aldrien, I have met waaaaaaaaaaaay too many people who don't read the rule book looking for answers first and or relying on supplimental stuff without checking on the subject first.  I have a problem with those sorts of folks...  a minor one but a problem none the less.

Fustrated that you don't understand the rule on this.

Remember, FAQ's are only meant a supplimental rulings for things believe to be misunderstood/obscure and even THEY can be wrong.

i understand that rule, but since noone mentioned an error in the faq, i assumed it was still correct

also, i only cited the faqs, because i wanted to make clear that the argument may be based upon the faqs phrase:

Bayonettes do full listed weapon damage

  It is a badly made ruling and compounded by not spelling it out or referencing a page.  It happens... and of course it makes for large misunderstandings/discussions.  It needs to be fixed as the full description/explanation is right in this thread, taken straight from the relavent passages.  I happen to be going to McGee's later today, I'll show him the info (if he has not seen this exchange) and let him bring it to the FAQ team for correction.

now, donīt get me wrong, i am not angry or something!!

just think, many others had the two FAQs in the head and thatīs why noone thought it would be obviouse that ST+bonus is right.
(is it?? )

cuīs

No problem- I ran into the multiple FAQ issue in 40k games....  and that is very fustrating.  Went to a GT once where the GW staff had a two-version-previous FAQ for reference...  I would up giving them the up-to-date one I printed before I came to the event.

  And yes, as I described it, it is ST +bonus.  It's how it was tested by the crew and how it has been played by me in every game since the beta.

[Dragon62]

John I not arguing that ST is a factor in CC Dam but I  was always told and when CC came into play Dam was Weapon damage unless it was 'a CC weapon or Pistol/machine pistol. Page 131 yes says ad-hoc club but in reading the rule book your referance to page 120 is only about CC/Sidearms not Rifles. Rifles are referanced on page 50/51 8.7.5 and there is no referance there to the damage being ST. I have always been told the weapns damage in CC was a combination of ST plus the fact you were hitting them with the weapon hence same dam. If you look at the Yari which I know has a CC weapon built in the Damage is ST + 6 = 10 same as weapon Damage.

[Archer]

John I not arguing that ST is a factor in CC Dam but I  was always told and when CC came into play Dam was Weapon damage unless it was 'a CC weapon or Pistol/machine pistol. Page 131 yes says ad-hoc club but in reading the rule book your referance to page 120 is only about CC/Sidearms not Rifles. Rifles are referanced on page 50/51 8.7.5 and there is no referance there to the damage being ST. I have always been told the weapns damage in CC was a combination of ST plus the fact you were hitting them with the weapon hence same dam. If you look at the Yari which I know has a CC weapon built in the Damage is ST + 6 = 10 same as weapon Damage.

Phil, please read it again:

Weapon Damage

  The Damage of a Weapon is dependant upon the situation.  While in Close Combat, a weapons damage is derived from the Strength (ST) value of the model striking with it (unless its a Sidearm, which relies on the bullets to do the damage). The better or more deadly the Melee weapon is, the greater the bonus to the model's ST value.

  The EXCEPTION to the Damage= ST + whatever is Sidearms.

  The Yari, as stated in two places, is an exception due to it's integral bayonet.  Which is why it's singled out in two places.

  It is coincedence that it's CC dmg = its shooting damage.  That's ALL that is.