Author Topic: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?  (Read 8411 times)

Offline chribu

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Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« on: June 04, 2006, 09:27:03 AM »
Paradeploy models that land too close to enemy models will be captured and removed from game.
What if there are unit cards close by that still have to be revealed (for example because it's the first turn)?
Do paradeploying models get captured by unrevealed unit cards? Do they get captured once the unit card is revealed?

Thanks, Chribu

Offline jjdodger

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 10:42:24 AM »
IIRC, it was stated that the 1st model in is fine because the models under the cards arent ready to "receive" yet. Comes down to, how do you KNOW there is a model there? could be a false lead, or maybe the models are far enough away to *not* capture the model. After the 1st model in, though, all cards within leadership are revealed, and the 2nd model can be captured.

Offline chribu

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 12:34:02 PM »
Why all cards within LD are revealed?
I thought you needed one action to spot and reveal unit cards.

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 07:34:06 AM »
Normal units are revealed if within Ld and have LOS to center of card. Card with special abilities like Stealth and Stalk you must be in LD have LOS and make a Spot action. You can make a spot action at any distance just like you can shoot from 1 side of the table to the other. If you can see the center of the card dependig on scenery or type of board Jungle, Underground, Night rules these are the things that factor your LOS.
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Offline chribu

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 08:07:20 AM »
What you are saying doesn't seem to fit with an answer from PFC_Joe:
---------------------
If I have an enemy yet-to-be-activated unit card close by, and a model further away, what happens?
Can I target the model further away?
Do I have to spot check the unactivated unit card to reveal it?
What if i can't spot check as the unit card is further than my LD range?

You can't target the still unrevealed card so if you don't make spot checks you may fire at the further target.
-PFC joe
---------------------
So, from his answer to my question, it seems clear that
- i can't spot check a unit card that is further than my LD range
- i need to take an action to reveal a normal unit card within LD and in LOS

Hope PFC_joe comes back... I miss him  :D

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 08:15:19 AM »
If you were happy with Pfcjoe's answer why did you ask the question again? The way we stated above is the way we've aways played around here.
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Offline jjdodger

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2006, 11:37:42 AM »
In the book, it states that a card is revealed if a model is within leadership distance to the center of the card. ie, leadership 10 automatically spots all cards within 10"  of it, unless the card is stalking/stealthy/etc, and environment and terrain isnt in the way. If you would like, i can get a page number for you when i get home.

Offline chribu

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2006, 12:46:46 PM »
If you were happy with Pfcjoe's answer why did you ask the question again? The way we stated above is the way we've aways played around here.
Uhm well I was asking about paradeploy, i didn't know how to deal with unrevealed unit cards and paradeploying models.
But i'm sure you can't make a spot action at any distance. It says in the official FAQ!
Q: Is there no limit to the range in which a model can attempt a spot check?
A: The rule under "Making a Spot Check" on page 42 is incomplete. Along with the requirement for LOS, you must be within your LD in inches of the concealed model in order to attempt a spot check.

Offline chribu

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2006, 12:48:14 PM »
In the book, it states that a card is revealed if a model is within leadership distance to the center of the card. ie, leadership 10 automatically spots all cards within 10"  of it, unless the card is stalking/stealthy/etc, and environment and terrain isnt in the way. If you would like, i can get a page number for you when i get home.
I don't have the book with me for a few days so unfortunally I can't have a look.

But I got this other answer from the faq team in the past:

Unrevealed cards may not be targeted - period.  That was clarified some time ago.  Therefore, the only way to target an unrevealed unit is to first spot it.  Draw LOS to center of card, ignoring SZ of model (you don't really know it's there, you just think something may be there).  If you are within LD (less any modifiers for the unit actually represented by the card), make your spot check.  If it is a Flase Lead, or a unit with no SA that allow it to remain hidden (Stalk, Stealth, Lurk, etc.) it is automatically revealed with no need to Spot.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 08:47:13 AM by chribu »

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2006, 08:00:38 AM »
I'll give an example using Infiltrate.

When I use my Capitol Rangers I place one squad 12 inches from the enemy deployment zone (usually they have cards right up on the line) and I place a Ranger Captain right beside them.

On my first activation I activate the Captain and move him forward his full movement of 4 inches for one action.

He has 13 leadership so I measure out 13 inches and automaticaly reveal any cards that fall under that range.  If there are any sneaky SA's around, then I have to spend an action to make a spot attempt.

I save the Captains last actions to GO the Ranger squad behind him and they fire on whatever he's revealed.


For Paradeploy purposes.  The First model in is safe regardless of how close he lands to the card.  The first model also reveals all non-SA'd cards within his Leadership in inches.  I'm tryin to find the passage but I vaguely remember all unrevealed, unactivated cards in the deployment zone to be considered on Wait but I don't quite remember where it is.

-PFC joe
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2006, 08:12:14 AM »
PFC joe cant a spot check be made at any range not just within LD. Within LD only aply's to card with SA's. I realize terrain and environ. effect spot checks.
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2006, 08:19:34 AM »
Now that was a sticky issue, I remember that there were certain instances where a player would make spot checks on the entire board for their first action, revealing as many cards as they could and Thom said that that was right out.

If you look at Predatory Senses, it doubles the range (plus or minus a few inches) that you can make spot checks at.  That lends credence to the limited spotting range.

-PFC joe
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Offline chribu

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2006, 08:50:13 AM »
Ok, thanks! Now it's much more clear to me! :)

i guess the i had missed the bit that said "it is automatically revealed with no need to Spot".. ooops

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2006, 08:59:41 AM »
I know there's Reconnaissance Training that if place in the open during setup 6" in front of deployment zone you can make spot checks against 2 cards up 36" away and I believe that Predatory Senses was designed to be a counter for Stealth and Stalk.
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Paradeploy models captured by unrevealed units?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2006, 09:05:32 AM »
Those wuold further the point that Spot distance for regular old folks is limited.

-PFC joe
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