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Author Topic: Quicken Undead  (Read 10754 times)

Offline mchiao

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Quicken Undead
« on: February 01, 2006, 08:55:02 PM »
Quicken Undead is a spell for Devout's Necromancer.

With the faq, the Cursed is like a skeleton now (immune to hand held missle weapon and cannot run).

My question is, does the spell 'Quicken Undead' works on the Cursed?

thanks
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2006, 11:53:10 PM »
I would say yes.

As there are no skeletons in the game, at least I haven't found any, the rules will equate the classification of undead with skeleton. So any undead on the board may be tagret of the spell...

As there are some undead individuals you should agree with your firends what a unit is! warband or warband and individual...

When fielding undeas I would always bring the Unholy Champion and his standart into the game...
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Offline Southpaw

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2006, 06:19:51 AM »
I'm not sure I agree with you on that one Enker.

It's a gray area, to be sure, but my initial reaction is that there is a difference between "Undead" and "Skeleton".

As far as I know, since the spell specifically mentions "Skeleton units", this spell is only usable on things such as Risen Warriors/Archers, Bone Golems, Giant Skeletons, etc.

Units such as the Cursed, and the Unliving are indeed Undead, but are not technically Skeletons if we go by the books.

But, I can see the other side's point on this one, as well, for both continuity in storyline and mechanics (Undead are Undead as far as Necro's go, it's what they do, and do best), and ease of rules keeping.

An interesting point, I'm interested to see how the discussion progresses.
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Offline Coil

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 06:24:20 AM »
What is the wording of the spell? I'd suggest checking there first (which i will when I get home unless someone beats me to it). Does it say it only affects Risen or does it says it quickens Undead units?
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 06:31:06 AM »
QUICKEN UNDEAD
Cost: 5
Range: any skeleton unit on the board
Level: 4
Actions: 1
Save: n/a
Effect: when this spell is successfully cast it gives the target unit +1 to their MV Stat the next time it is activated.

EXAMPLE: If cast on a Skeleton Warband when all models in the warband have a 2 Move, the next time they are activated each model in the warband will have a 3 Move ( but only that turn ). The same effect will happen if it is cast on a Skeleton Individual. This Spell is not cumulative.
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Offline Ruther

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 06:37:51 AM »
Hmm it seems the Rule clarification about the cursed has made them into somekind of "Uber" unit for the devout  ;)

As we have:

Full immunity to all morale effects, big chunky weapons, solid CC, great Armor,  fastest Undead Unit wich can become even faster with an Avatar (must have in such an army), Immune to handheld missleweapons .... etc  ::)

So if the quicken undead spell works for them as well we could field a Unit of 8 Models wich could reach a speed of 5 per AC( the fastest non Beast/mounted Unit on the Battlefield wow and its Undead wich are supposed to be slow  ::) )  and have as well all the afromentioned goodies. Isnt that  abit much for a unit wich costs 31 points per model?

As i see it the quicken undead spell was intended to alow the normaly slow moving Skelletons a  faster movement toward the enemys (thus make them more usefull as misslescreen etc.). With the introduction of the Avatar of darkness these units became even more effective (not brocken).

Short after that the clarification to the cursed were made and trandsformed them into the uber warband they are now.

Are these synergetic effects are calculated in the current costs ? I doubt that a bit, but thats just my thoughts

Edit: Seems anomander rake checked the book bevore i was done typing  ;D
« Last Edit: February 02, 2006, 06:39:35 AM by Ruther »
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 06:39:05 AM »
Quote from: Southpaw on February 02, 2006, 06:19:51 AM
I'm not sure I agree with you on that one Enker.

It's a gray area, to be sure, but my initial reaction is that there is a difference between "Undead" and "Skeleton".

As far as I know, since the spell specifically mentions "Skeleton units", this spell is only usable on things such as Risen Warriors/Archers, Bone Golems, Giant Skeletons, etc.

Units such as the Cursed, and the Unliving are indeed Undead, but are not technically Skeletons if we go by the books.

But, I can see the other side's point on this one, as well, for both continuity in storyline and mechanics (Undead are Undead as far as Necro's go, it's what they do, and do best), and ease of rules keeping.

An interesting point, I'm interested to see how the discussion progresses.

I'm not Enker... ;)

The question is if there has been a mistake editing the spell or not...the rules don't mention skeletons as a classification...

just my two cents...
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2006, 06:40:33 AM »
Quote from: Ruther on February 02, 2006, 06:37:51 AM
So if the quicken undead spell works for them as well we could field a Unit of 8 Models wich could reach a speed of 5 per AC( the fastest non Beast/mounted Unit on the Battlefield wow and its Undead wich are supposed to be slow 

They can be faster in fact...MV 3 + quicken undead + unholy champion with avatar of war standard = 5 that makes 7,5 " running...
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Offline Ruther

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2006, 06:42:12 AM »
Hehe funny Idea,  but as Undead they can not run  ;D (rules sometimes make sense  ;D ;D ;D )
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 06:44:30 AM »
Quote from: Ruther on February 02, 2006, 06:42:12 AM
Hehe funny Idea,  but as Undead they can not run  ;D (rules sometimes make sense  ;D ;D ;D )

Show me the rule my friend...they can run...those undeads who can't run have it stated in their description... ;D
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Offline Ruther

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 06:50:17 AM »
You right, looks like thats these Undead are just a better cavalery unit than the mounted ones of the other races (bit absurd but "its in the rules" ^^)

I nice force just came to my mind, i play that in the next PBEM against you and we check how well balanced they are  ;) .
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 06:52:05 AM »
I already did that in my last pbem against Morf, Wedge and Coil...undeads are nice...although I lost all of my troops...like in our current game but my stygies will get you...or not... ;D
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Offline Morfdoggs

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 06:52:44 AM »
I have never seen any where, where the Cursed can't run, It states in the Risens Profile that they can't but says nothing like that for the cursed.
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 06:54:33 AM »
Quote from: Anomander_Rake on February 02, 2006, 06:40:33 AM
Quote from: Ruther on February 02, 2006, 06:37:51 AM
So if the quicken undead spell works for them as well we could field a Unit of 8 Models wich could reach a speed of 5 per AC( the fastest non Beast/mounted Unit on the Battlefield wow and its Undead wich are supposed to be slow 

They can be faster in fact...MV 3 + quicken undead + unholy champion with avatar of war standard = 5 that makes 7,5 " running...

did I say that you get another +1 Strength with the Avatar of war? For all Undeads! Even the Necromancer and his summonings... ;D 8)
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Offline Ruther

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Re: Quicken Undead
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2006, 06:55:58 AM »
I knew that, but didnt wanted to go over the top  8)
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