Author Topic: I'd forgotten...  (Read 8169 times)

Offline Pieper

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I'd forgotten...
« on: January 30, 2006, 10:33:31 AM »
How much fun the game is.  I did a little refresher this weekend, just pushing some squads around on the table with my 4 year old rolling for one side.  Total carnage, one side was almost wiped out with the other taking a real beating.  All this in about 6 turns.  Even had a little  hand to hand.  Makes me even more motivated to try and set up a regular time to play.

Offline JohnL5555

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 11:26:43 AM »
Yep, it is a fun game. I have been picking up loads more troops for the game. My buddy is working on Capitol. My son is doing Dark Legion and I'm doing some Tribes and other Corps. We have a few other buddies who may jump on board. We'll probably start using 1st, though. I know those rules and prefer those force lists.

Thanks,

John

Offline Sylvas

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2006, 05:20:53 PM »
the game is a blast...

I used to play second edition when I lived in Texas, but then I moved up north to Ohio and was told that the game was out of production...at Origins 2 years ago, I was walking through the minis room when, lo and behold, I saw a display for the game, played a quick demo, and was hooked on the game again...even still had the minis that I could dust off and use again...

B.
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Offline JohnL5555

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 10:48:42 AM »
  Yep, that would be a big plus! I REALLY like the look of the new rules since they are similar to 1st. But, the erratta sorta puts me off. I also am not excited with the turn that some of the army lists have taken. So, we'll likely stick with 1st edition.

Thanks,

John

Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 10:59:07 AM »
John what specifically concerns you?  I'm curious.  I liked first edition, it was the first miniature game I ever played but I really grew to dislike the ruleset, the stats were to high and the hero's were ungodly powerful, I think UWZ captures all of the good elements from first edition and also adds a good helping of balance to a game where that wasn't necisarily a focus back in the day.  Which armies and what about them concerns you?

I always enjoy hearing others opinions on the game, and look forward to your comments.

Offline Pieper

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 12:35:46 PM »
First Edition was fun, but it was made in a different time, a time when balance was not as important.  You want to know the biggest reason why I don't return to playing 1st Ed?  I really like a lot of the new figs that were relleased with 2nd Ed. for which there is no 1st ed stat line. 

Offline Sylvas

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 08:19:47 PM »
well, I can understand the comment about the errata...that does get in the way sometimes...

I agree with GSB...I never played 1st ed. (I started with 2nd), but what I have seen of it, characters were game changers on their own (Crenshaw) and tactics didn't seem to be as important...

B.
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Offline Enker

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2006, 12:53:35 AM »
Yes, the game can be very fun, if you play a good scenario.
Sometimes (but fortunately not often) the scenario ist not well belanced or the goal is too diffucult.
If you play without scenarios there is a great danger, that both players are hidding their models behind cover all the time.
We have discovered back Warzone about half an year ago. We have started it with the beginning of the 1st edition (I'm 27 years old).

The first edition was fun to play, but the balance was, lets say there was simply no balance.
Do you remember Pretorion Stalker? At the beginning we played, that you can equip units with differt weapons.
So the Stalkers eliminated the battlefield with Nazgaroth. Normal Troops were useless. The individuals ruled the game.
Yeah, Heros with 3 Sp. Equipment and 3 Heroic Special Abilities and the Nimrod.
The Pilgrim Executioner was the nearly unbeatable slashing everthing guy.
Or a Behemoth with the Necrotech for avoiding bullets.
And of course my Kamikaze Free Marines with AP Grenades and Flamer.

2nd Edition was mainly the same as the 3rd. I think in 2nd the vehicle rules were even better.
Sadly there was only a book for Capitol and Bauhaus. So we played the 2nd edition not often
and the 1st not often, too, because it was to unbalanced.
We were close before putting our warzone field into the waste and played for a longer time no Warzone at all.

But then we discovered that there was the third edition and now the old Warzone Spirit is back.
It is the best balanced Warzone edition. I specially like, that normal Soldiers are important, too.
But it is not perfekt. Some things are a little cheasy, but by faaaaaaaar not so much as in 1st.
The only thing I do not like is the size of the new figures. They are so mini and airy.
Have you ever compared an old Brotherhood Figure with a new Nagano Shadowwalker? They are both size two.
Or the Capitol Colonel with a Hvy. Inf. Sniper? Thats really unfair, because bigger models have the disadvantage,
that you can't hide them so well.
My assumption is, that they are so small now, because of the high metal prices.
Less material means less production costs.
Marines! Lets kick some A S S!

Offline PFC joe

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2006, 01:07:54 AM »
I understood the newer, smaller figures to be in an effort to bring the line closer to true 25 mm sizes as opposed to 28 mm "Heroic" scale.  Though they may have been a little more in the Lightweight category, they sur elooked awesome.

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Offline semai99

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2006, 10:01:04 AM »
The first edition was fun to play, but the balance was, lets say there was simply no balance.
Do you remember Pretorion Stalker? At the beginning we played, that you can equip units with differt weapons.
So the Stalkers eliminated the battlefield with Nazgaroth. Normal Troops were useless. The individuals ruled the game.
Yeah, Heros with 3 Sp. Equipment and 3 Heroic Special Abilities and the Nimrod.
The Pilgrim Executioner was the nearly unbeatable slashing everthing guy.
Or a Behemoth with the Necrotech for avoiding bullets.
And of course my Kamikaze Free Marines with AP Grenades and Flamer.

Yep I remember 1st editions super powerful characters and we banned several cheesy combos (we had to do the same for Warhammer at the time)

I remember one game where an imperial Headhunter (or thet type of hero) was mounted on an fenris bike/mower I can't remember exactly, armed with a clan sword it came to his first turn he charged across the flank and make contact with the first squad and killed a figure which with his special ablity let him have another action so he charged the next squad member and so on until the entire squad was dead but unluckly  for the player on the receiving end another squad was within charge distance and so they were all whiped out as well, now after that that combo was banned from games and in second edition were were very pleased to see characters were not all powerful, and its the same now with 3rd edition which IMHO is an enjoyable game to play.
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Offline Pieper

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2006, 01:44:43 PM »
Ahh the  stories, I remember that I could make a Cyber Chasseur hero tougher than Vince Diamond.  Or how I wiped out 2/3 of my opponents force with one squad of blitzers with AP grenades before he even got a turn.  It was undeniably fun to some extent to build those combos which is the attraction of playing 1st Ed. for some people.  But, third edition is just as fun in terms of carnage, but there is no longer a sense of I refuse to play that army it is too cheesy.  Plus as far as the manufacturer is concerned balancing forces is the way to go so you can sell all of your product  ;D

Offline JohnL5555

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2006, 05:24:19 PM »
  Hi. I do not like how some of the armies have been broken up and you are forced to build entirely new forces to have a legal force. This isn't in every case.

We don't use many characters (i only own a few). Nobody is allowed to use anything outside the regular armories. We also will be using the 1st edition Fast play rules. Only folks allowed to hide are those with the ability. Funny, we didn't seem to have all those issues with 1st. The CC system was much better than in 2nd. Since there have been so few new releases since 2nd, I don't believe there are any new troop types excluding some of the Cav for 1st edition, IIRC. I also have other rules options if this doesn't work to our satisfaction.

I do like the core mechanics in UWZ. I disagree with the principle of being forced to take so many grunt squads to get so many elites, etc. i prefer the points system to balance those things out. Moot point, though.  :)

Thanks,

John

Timthetekron

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2006, 07:30:34 PM »
...I would post some source material quotes from the short stories, novels, and game fluff, but I know it will be ignored or shrugged off as the delusions of someone who thinks that 1st edition was the closest to allowing all those models to behave like they would. Is it possible that is why 1st edition was so wildly popular? Because it broke from that stagnated, chokehold of BORING predictability "game balance". I think so. It allowed things to happen that you can't really find in any other game. I ask you to look at the awesome source material again, it's screaming heroic "reality" defying actions like we all see in movies and in video games for example. Here's a example from the RPG (p.12) talking about Doomtroopers..." they are actually able to match the ferocity of the Nepharites... ". 2nd and 3rd editions don't come close to reflecting a Doomtrooper like is quoted above, 1st edition was on the right track but could have done everything alot more justice. A timid and cautious approach to game mechanics in the name of "game balance" as if it should be some game of chess isn't going to give you anything that truely allows those models to be true to themselves or the game world they inhabit. Feel free to "smite" me for giving my honest opinion on a great topic, it's happened before. I don't mean to offend anyone, OK?

Offline Enker

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 01:02:51 AM »

Not all things in first edition were bad. The super Heros were nice to play, but they were far too good.
Squads were massacred by the Heros and that was ****. In third Ed. the Individuals could be a little better, yes.
They are nothing special now. Vehicles are the most powerfull models now.
The close cambat system was indeed better in 1.st. In third its very difficult to get into CC and even if you
can strike your enemy you do not much damage. (But we don't want a super slashing Pilgrim Excecutioner back.)
Another thing that was better in first, were the vehicles rules. More realistic and more detailed.
I like the new system with Grunt, Elite and Support. If you do not have to put in the Grunts into your Force there is no reason to use them.
So you could cancel them completly. If you don't like the system, play your house rules. Cancel the rule.
But 1st edition was unplayable without many houserules. 3rd edition is a good balanced system which could be improved.
EE when do you puplish a revised 3rd edition or a extension book with some changed and additional rules?
Hmm, why don't make a new topic.
Marines! Lets kick some A S S!

Offline Davesaint

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Re: I'd forgotten...
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2006, 01:27:12 PM »
I've played Warzone since 1st edition.  Most of the 1st edition heros were busted big time.  Too many actions, too many good weapons.

I do like UWZ quite a bit, but I too get a little frustrated trying to get my Mishima into CC.  The reason why this has gotten so difficult is the Assault Rifle.  The ranges that the assault rifle can fire now makes it very difficult to cross into close combat.  Add to that the Laser Sight, and some troop type get pretty sick.  Lately I have been facing Dark Legion with all those kratachs with laser sights on them.  It's nasty.  Otherwise things work pretty well


Dave