Berserk & Fear Question

[Wedge]

Berserking models become immune to panic and fear while berserk.  Models that are immune to fear treat dread as if it were fear.  Using logic, models that are berserk and fail the dread (fear) check may have only 1 action and cannot charge the Dread causing model until they move out of the dread causing model's radius, rally, etc.

Good question.

[joshuaslater]

Here's where it gets tricky.  If we assume (and we all know what that means) that berserk conveys immunity from Fear, but not Dread we find ourselves in the same situation as to which comes first, the failed save or the act of going berserk.  If it's Dread, you now have to see if the model berserks giving it that thing under Dread for models immune to fear, or if they haven't berserked yet and they're like everybody else.  Does the first failed save against Dread mean they can Berserk and behave like an ordinary model under the effects of Fear?

[Coil]

Could you clarify that question a bit Josh? Are you asking what happens if a Berserker (who is not currently raging) fails a save vs Dread  and then starts Berserk?

[joshuaslater]

That's the whole gist of it Coil, whether it's fear or dread.  The model suddenly gets rushed by a fear or dread causing model.  They fail their save.  What happens next?  Do they still lose one action but can then go berserk?  Can they ignore a failed save altogether, making them essentially immune to fear? 

[Coil]

Ok.

1.
The non-raging Berserker has no immunities and rolls for Dread when the Soulflayer lands next to him. If he fails he suffers the effects of Dread as described on p.78. If he then starts his Berserk he will treat the Dread as Fear (meaning he still loses an Action but his CC and RC are not halved).

2. A currently raging Berserker enters a Dread radius. He''s Immune to Fear so he treats the Dread as Fear and rolls for it and suffers the consequences if he fails.

Does that answer it? Or are there more variants that I can't think of?

[joshuaslater]

Almost.  Start with the most basic one.  What happens when the unit is not currently berserk, and the Fear causing models rushes them, and they fail their fear test?  Do they lose an action? 

[masherking]

Bottom line: Berserk is a special ability that trumps the effects of fear when a player declares his unit is going berserk.

loseing an action is a effect of fear.
berserk negates fear.
hense you dont lose the action. Even after you fail test and then go berserk its like fear never happen in the first place.

Yes I see that your rolled for fear first and are puzzled to see it just magically go away plus now the model is back to normal actions when under fear it just had lost one, but as it said earlier, in this case, Berserk is just that good.

thats how I read it
of course wait for wedge or coil to see what they say

[joshuaslater]

Why does it say you have to go Berserk before entering combat?  Does this mean when I get charged, fail my save, and am getting clobbered by the Troll that I can't now go berserk?

[masherking]

if you dont declare berserk before you charge you dont get the +4cc, def & +2st
in combat.

Berserk isnt a automatic SA
you have to declare it.

[joshuaslater]

I dig it, Steve, but say your model is charged by the Troll, fails his fear check and somehow survives the charge.  Can that model go berserk, now that he's in close combat, or has he succumbed to fear and lost one action; I'm assuming the rest of the unit can go berserk and charge?

[Coil]

If he is already in close combat he cannot enter Berserk mode. That's in the rule for Berserk.

I'll get back to you on Fear, Berserk and not already in CC. I'm discussing something with Wedge first.

[joshuaslater]

Thanks to all for participating in this dialogue.  I've slapped everyone's karma/applaud button for indulging me in this rules pondering. 

[joshuaslater]

@masherking--Steve, to really fry our noodles, is the problem a catch-22?  You can't charge the fear causing model on the failed fear roll, but you have to declare berserk before you charge, when you're fear-stricken and can't charge?  Whoa, I've partied too hard in this life.  I'm goin' cross-eyed!

[masherking]

nope you anwsered your question

you declare berserk before you charge.
now fear has no effect.
your free to charge with all your actions

simiply berserk makes it like fear never happen...as long as you declare it.

[joshuaslater]

Well, I do declare!  Steve, I'm going to play it this way.  Thanks for all your help.  I'm sure this is how the special ability was meant to work, and I'm just overanalytical.  I think it would be good to tidy up this confusion with a line or two in the Cerulean Mists supplement, just to avoid any confusion.  Have a good night.  I'm headin' to my Thursday D&D game, when I'd rather be playin' Chronopia.  Sigh.