Sea Lion troops and Captain question

[Pax]

on page 172 I noted that the Sea Lion Captain got a MV of 4. Meanwhile the rest of the Sea Lions got a MV of 3. I'm wondering if this is intended that he got higher movement than the rest, or if this is what the Sea Lions was supposed to have as "perk" compared with other Capitol Navy units?

I noted that Admiral Colby's Guard got the same cost, but better stats and more survival training. A MV of 4 instead of 3 had explained why Sea Lions cost as much if so.

[luckyone]

Good point Pax.

Discussed here some:

Which models need an update
Capital Troops for jungle fight.

My take:

The Captain needs a beter MV to react to battlefield changes and be able to move/communicate/activate appropriate squads etc.

Yes. ACG has better stats (CC/RC/ST) for the same price. Also better Surv at 4. It is the extra squad members that the Sea Lion squad allows you to have that push the points up IMHO. They have (in addition to trooper, sgt, LMG) a gren, comm, medic, sniper and captain choice.

I guess it depends on what you want the squad to do. Having fire mission capapbility - sea lion all the way. Sniper - sea lion.

Surviving in hostile terrain - ACG.

My personal choice - Sea Lions all the way. Captain and comm for fire missions, sniper to reach out and touch someone.

If I find myself on an extremely hostile board (level 5 or greater), I'm calling for Nathan Parrish himself.

Just my take.

[Enker]

Hmm, you are right. There seems to be a disagreement.

I personaly find the Sea Lions (on of) the weakest Capitol Unit(s).
They have nothing special, except the Sniper Specialist.
But that can't be the reason for the point costs.

So please give them MV4. Maybe than sometimes I would use them.

[Pax]

Heh, for note. I'd rather bring in a light infantry medic than a sea lion medic. Sea lion Medic got 3 in Medic while the grunt squads actually got 4. And Air strikes are very... demanding, in just how the unit must be at the right place at the right time.

And unfortunately for me, neither the sniper nor the medic is to be found for sale. (And I'm not good at proxy things).

[Lopis]

But that can't be the reason for the point costs.

Why not?

[Enker]

But that can't be the reason for the point costs.

Why not?

Because the cost for a model is only depending of the stats and abilites of this model.
Not of other models (e.g. the specialists of a squad).

[micmellon]

For me it would be a new experience that the point costs are always logical.

At least not that I understand them. But who I am to question the costs?     

[Lopis]

But that can't be the reason for the point costs.

Why not?

Because the cost for a model is only depending of the stats and abilites of this model.
Not of other models (e.g. the specialists of a squad).

You say it yourself.
The nothing special as you call it is:
Survival Training 2
Guerilla Training
integrated CommLink
a CC possibility with their included swords

Thats a lot of specials in my eyes....

And adding to that they have very broad possibilities for application through their vast specialists.

[Pax]

I think that if you had moved ACG to ground forces, you would have been off with a more logical reason for having two units with the same cost that is quite a lot the same. '


ACG and Sea Lions ain't the same in stats and abilities but they are at the same cost.
ACG got 1 higher CC/RC, 1 higher ST, same cost.
Both got Guerrilla Training.
ACG got 2 higher Survival training than Sea Lions. (ACG 4/Sea Lions 2)
Sea Lions got Com-link and more choice of specialists. (ACG 1/Sea Lions 4)
They both got swords and Assault Rifles.

So I have along with probably several others asked why they have the same cost for those troops. (except for Sea Lion specialists that costs even more since they got more choice.) The 4 MV of the Captain was something that made me ask if they were intended to have that all of them, or if there is some other reason why the Captain got 1 higher MV than his troops. And now for me to point out that I had seen so much more logic into having ACG as Ground Forces than Navy.

[Archer]

For me it would be a new experience that the point costs are always logical.

At least not that I understand them. But who I am to question the costs?     

Unit sizes really have no bearing on model cost for 90% of the units out there....  the other 10 percent, I'm not sure on.

[Archer]

Pax,

  This is being discussed right now.  Hopefully, I can pick a certain person's brain on it.  While I think its a typo, I could be wrong here.

[Enker]

Uha I forgot the squad comm link. That could add the missing points compared to ACG.

But that can't be the reason for the point costs.

Why not?

Because the cost for a model is only depending of the stats and abilites of this model.
Not of other models (e.g. the specialists of a squad).

You say it yourself.
The nothing special as you call it is:
Survival Training 2
Guerilla Training
integrated CommLink
a CC possibility with their included swords

Thats a lot of specials in my eyes....

And adding to that they have very broad possibilities for application through their vast specialists.

Survival Training 2: Yes this is so important. Esp. if any squad can buy it via env. suit. So nothing special.
Guerilla Training: You know no one of us have ever used this to an advantage. The best thing on this is the -1 to hit.
Comm Link: You can buy this for any elite squad. So nothing special.

For the Sea Lions you always find a Squad which is better to use.
And the "awaysome" sniper is nearly standard in the other corporations.
Only for Capitol it is special because of the short ranged other sniper rifle.

If the Sea Lions would belong to Bauhaus they were Grunt Troops 

[Pax]

Cool. Thanks Archer.

[Lopis]

Uha I forgot the squad comm link. That could add the missing points compared to ACG.

But that can't be the reason for the point costs.

Why not?

Because the cost for a model is only depending of the stats and abilites of this model.
Not of other models (e.g. the specialists of a squad).

You say it yourself.
The nothing special as you call it is:
Survival Training 2
Guerilla Training
integrated CommLink
a CC possibility with their included swords

Thats a lot of specials in my eyes....

And adding to that they have very broad possibilities for application through their vast specialists.

Survival Training 2: Yes this is so important. Esp. if any squad can buy it via env. suit. So nothing special.
Guerilla Training: You know no one of us have ever used this to an advantage. The best thing on this is the -1 to hit.
Comm Link: You can buy this for any elite squad. So nothing special.

For the Sea Lions you always find a Squad which is better to use.
And the "awaysome" sniper is nearly standard in the other corporations.
Only for Capitol it is special because of the short ranged other sniper rifle.

If the Sea Lions would belong to Bauhaus they were Grunt Troops 

Yeah you could buy it as addons, but now you have the possibility to even get a higher stat for heavier terrains.
And these are already included in the costs, you can substract them and you would get pretty cheap troops.

Yeah, noone used guerilla training to an advantage -  tilll now!
But on the other hand, who did field guerilla troops?

And if they belonged to Bauhaus they wouldnīt be grunts - they got better ones  - ....., no just a joke; there are only ones without all the specials.
But truth to tell I would like an elite troop with broad specialist possibilities, especially a sniper choice.
Bauhaus hasnīt any....

[dmcgee1]

Guerilla Training: You know no one of us have ever used this to an advantage. The best thing on this is the -1 to hit.

Shame, really; it is a great ability when used right.  I have used it with Pauldrons to great advantage, especially on a dual-level board on which Archer and I played a game.