Dire Rating....

[Bagomba]

Hi Guys....

searchin the Forum about Dire Rating but had still some Questions about that... the first 2 are just to clarify

1. When  a dire rating model wounds an individiual and friendly squad of the individual stands in dire Rating range then the squad donīt have to test because only the unit have to roll against dire

2. Multiwounds units ( Individuals, Vulkans, Dragonriders... ) make no dire rating Check till they loose half their Squad/Wounds ( and Vehicles till they loose half squad and their Safe Wound )

3. Now the Question that i think about: with the last hit of a dire rating model a squad is reduced to 50 % ... the rest of the squad is in dire effect range... must they now first make a dire roll and then after that a panic check ? 

thx

[Alchas]

1: Not really. If a unit with dire scores a wound on an enemy units, -all- other enemy units within range of the injured one (multi wound or not) will have to roll morale with the dire penalty. However, the whole squad does not have to roll morale, only the individual members who are within range of the injured one.

2: I think multi wound units are also affected by dire effects, and would have to roll against fear if another unit (or themselves) are wounded within the dire range.

3: I have no idea. =X

[Lopis]

ad 1.
I have to disagree with Alchas.
As I read it on p. 65 in the Rulebook. Only the affected (with at least one wound taken) unit has to roll against the DIRE. If the unit consists of more than one model, only the models in Range of the DIRE Effect have to roll.

ad 2. Vehicles truly are immune to DIRE or othwr morale issues ītil they lost they last safe wound as stated on p. 94

ad 3. Yes they would have to do that in the given order. DIRE is for this cause an distinct issue of morale than the panic-check.
First see what DIRE did to them and the look if they get panicked by the gruesome death of comrades..... 

[dmcgee1]

Hi Guys....

searchin the Forum about Dire Rating but had still some Questions about that... the first 2 are just to clarify

1. When  a dire rating model wounds an individiual and friendly squad of the individual stands in dire Rating range then the squad donīt have to test because only the unit have to roll against dire

2. Multiwounds units ( Individuals, Vulkans, Dragonriders... ) make no dire rating Check till they loose half their Squad/Wounds ( and Vehicles till they loose half squad and their Safe Wound )

3. Now the Question that i think about: with the last hit of a dire rating model a squad is reduced to 50 % ... the rest of the squad is in dire effect range... must they now first make a dire roll and then after that a panic check ? 

thx

Sounds right to me.

[micmellon]

Vehicles are immune to Dire Rating but Multiwounds units ( Individuals, Vulkans, Dragonriders... ) are influenced by Dire Rating. They are not immune.

[dmcgee1]

Vehicles are immune to Dire Rating but Multiwounds units ( Individuals, Vulkans, Dragonriders... ) are influenced by Dire Rating. They are not immune.

I am not able to find that in the book, at the moment, micmellon.  Where is that stated?

[Lopis]

ad 2. Vehicles truly are immune to DIRE or othwr morale issues ītil they lost they last safe wound as stated on p. 94

[Bagomba]

Vehicles are immune to Dire Rating but Multiwounds units ( Individuals, Vulkans, Dragonriders... ) are influenced by Dire Rating. They are not immune.

I am not able to find that in the book, at the moment, micmellon.  Where is that stated?

Giving the question back, dmc.... canīt find the rule in the book that individuals or multiwounds Squads are only affected by dire till they loose half their wounds  (exept Vehicles with safe wounds).... Iīve find that somewhere in the forum, but i ask me why that should be so... An Individual is just a single man squad with more wounds 

[micmellon]

Hey Bagomba. You started to mess around and to make out of vehicles and normal multible wound units in the same case. 
In my opionion we have to seperate the two cases.

Normal units are all the same regarding to Dire Rating. It does not make a difference if they have one wound or for example three wounds.

[Bagomba]

Iīve find that in the topic "vehicles and dire" in Game questions when searching the forum for dire rating (sorry donīt know how to quote that) Hereīs the answer that makes me thinking about that from PFC joe

"Vehicles, like multiwound units, only test for morale effects after they have lost half the squad.

That said, if half the squad is lost then any vehicles out of safe wounds would test for panic/dire effects as required (when another member of the squad is lost or, if being the last surviving model in the squad, when they lose further wounds)."

thatīs why Iīm asking .... normaly i would say that exept vehicles all units are effected by dire rating... and thatīs why Iīm ask to clarify that...

[dmcgee1]

Hi Guys....

searchin the Forum about Dire Rating but had still some Questions about that... the first 2 are just to clarify

1. When  a dire rating model wounds an individiual and friendly squad of the individual stands in dire Rating range then the squad donīt have to test because only the unit have to roll against dire

2. Multiwounds units ( Individuals, Vulkans, Dragonriders... ) make no dire rating Check till they loose half their Squad/Wounds ( and Vehicles till they loose half squad and their Safe Wound )

3. Now the Question that i think about: with the last hit of a dire rating model a squad is reduced to 50 % ... the rest of the squad is in dire effect range... must they now first make a dire roll and then after that a panic check ? 

thx

I think that there is a misunderstanding in the mechanic of how Dire is actually used, here.  Dire affects the Panic Check; it is a negative modifier to the Panic Roll.  Therefore, if no Panic Roll needs to be made, then do not roll.  If a Special Ability includes the effect that a Panic Check must immediately be made, then mke the Panic Roll using the Dire SA as a negative modifier to the roll, in addition to any other modifiers.

Does this clarify it?

[Bagomba]

no thatīs only the first power of Dire Rating you described
the second is listed in section 11.1 page 85 of the book...

"Any model with a Dire Rating that scores a wound on an
enemy model within its area of effect will provoke a Morale check
for every model in that enemy model's Squad still in the area of
effect at the end of the Dire-causing model's turn."

and my question was about this abiltiy...

[dmcgee1]

If a Special Ability includes the effect that a Panic Check must immediately be made, then mke the Panic Roll using the Dire SA as a negative modifier to the roll, in addition to any other modifiers.

As stated, Dire is a Special Ability, therefore, the situation you describe would provoke an immediate Panic (Morale) check.  As the Panic Test for having the squad reduced to 50% or less is done after the opposing player's activation, then a seperate Panic Test (Check, Roll, etc.) is made.

The two effects are not related, and are checked seperately; they are not combined.

Does this clarify it?

[Bagomba]

yes thx....