Author Topic: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles  (Read 23906 times)

Offline micmellon

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Karma: +21/-4
Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« on: January 27, 2009, 03:57:10 AM »
How I have to handle the following Situation:

A group of Mourning Wolves attacks for example a RAMS Air Cavalry (Sounds weird but it can happen :-\). The rule book says: "If Flyers wishes to Break Away from Close Combat, it does not to roll anything, even if an enemy model wishes to prevent it."

It is the same with vehicles. The rules states they don’t have to test to break away but the tangle chain prohibited the break away (“may not break away”) in general. Does it mean that the entangled flyers and vehicles have to stay at place? At least I understand it like this if I take the rules literal.

Flyers and vehicles don’t have to test to do a break away and the tangle chain does not allow choosing the action “break away”. The outcome of this is the enemy of the Mourning Wolves have to stay in CC until the Mourning Wolves are dead or they get released by there opponents.
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night

Offline Archer

  • Board Member
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1676
  • Karma: +64/-2
  • Warzone General extrodinare based in Reading, PA
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2009, 05:54:20 AM »
Oh wow....  I'm not sure on that one... though if the RAC pilot was in CC range of the ladies, he gets what he deserves.
John "Archer" Tinney

"Ready?"
"Why do your people always ask if someone is ready, just before you do something massively unwise?"
"Tradition."

- Jeffrey Sinclair and Delenn, Babylon 5: "War Without End, Part One" y

Offline Dragon62

  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1893
  • Karma: +67/-0
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2009, 06:11:02 AM »
The Rams Air is not a vehicle and cannot auto breakaway from CC.  This is the current ruling on this model.
Define Irony-A bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.

Homebase-New Jersey
Ebay-Dragondrake69

Offline micmellon

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Karma: +21/-4
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2009, 08:15:26 AM »
The RAM was just an example. Anyway it is offtopic but on page 42 in UWZ rulebook is writen: "If Flyers wishes to Break Away from Close Combat, it does not to roll anything, even if an enemy model wishes to prevent it."
And a RAM can fly as far I know. And (http://forum54.oli.us/index.php?topic=1027.0) says the rule is correct so why do you want an exception just for the RAM?

But anyway my question works with all other flying units, too.
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night

Offline warzoneD

  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1206
  • Karma: +73/-0
  • Ad Astra Per Aspera
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2009, 09:38:33 AM »
I always approach my game from a common sense POV .   While the rules may seem contradictory, here is the moment to use one's logic.

E.g. If a human-sized, mortal, with a chain, wraps it around the wing of an aircraft or a man with a rocket pack, what would Phyics say?  To me the girl would likely be whipped up into the air or maybe have her arm torn off. 

And yes, while I realize UWZ is a Sci-Fi game, it's not an Anime cartoon where normal people can flip 50' through the air, it is, more or less, based on the rules of a real world. So models are only so strong, so fast, so tough, etc.

Anyway, that's my 10 cents worth.  Go to town!   :o ;D ;D

Best,

D

Offline joshuaslater

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3684
  • Karma: +115/-4
  • Homebase: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 09:54:24 AM »
Good question. 
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

Homebase: Philadelphia, PA

Offline dmcgee1

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3179
  • Karma: +147/-7
  • Ask away!
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 02:57:35 PM »
Auto Break away is, well, just that.  A vehicle may Auto-break from CC, no matter the circumstance.  Tangle Chains, Chains of Illian, etc. have the effect of negating the attempt to break away.  With vehicles, there is no attempt, they merely drive (fly, roll, hop, walk) away.

Does that clear it up?  (I ask this in case I have not answered the question fully or clearly - not to sound like an arrogant windbag.  It is difficult to sound empathetic through text.)
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Topkick

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3052
  • Karma: +222/-22
  • Former Crusader Coordinator - Midwest Region
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 03:47:12 PM »
E.g. If a human-sized, mortal, with a chain, wraps it around the wing of an aircraft or a man with a rocket pack, what would Phyics say?  To me the girl would likely be whipped up into the air or maybe have her arm torn off. 
Anyway, that's my 10 cents worth.  Go to town!   :o ;D ;D

Best,

D

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say the let go of the chain.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 04:08:06 PM by Topkick »
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

Homebase:  South Central Wisconsin
E-Bay Handle: Topkick-890

Offline Veez

  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
  • Karma: +159/-7
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 03:49:58 PM »
Put the chains down and noone gets hurt!
VeezCon products:  Not as good as if they had been actually produced by a real figure company, but better than using your shoe to proxy with...sort of!

Offline jjdodger

  • Board Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 03:55:39 PM »
well, its the same question for the wailing banshees.. which are not a vehicle, but can fly... do they get to auto break??

Offline warzoneD

  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1206
  • Karma: +73/-0
  • Ad Astra Per Aspera
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 04:11:26 PM »
Warzone Humor--

Q: What did the exhausted Wailing Banshee say to his nagging wife the Mourning Wolf?

A: Will you give me an auto-break already?

Offline Dragon62

  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1893
  • Karma: +67/-0
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 08:36:04 PM »
As with the Rams Air, the Banshees can't auto-break away. ;)
Define Irony-A bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.

Homebase-New Jersey
Ebay-Dragondrake69

Offline micmellon

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Karma: +21/-4
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 03:21:14 AM »
The sentence of the rule book: “If Flyers wishes to Break Away from Close Combat, it does not to roll anything, even if an enemy model wishes to prevent it." is in this case obsolete because it only works for vehicles and this is already stated below on the same page.

dmcgee1 : “Auto Break away is, well, just that.  A vehicle may Auto-break from CC, no matter the circumstance.  Tangle Chains, Chains of Illian, etc. have the effect of negating the attempt to break away.  With vehicles, there is no attempt, they merely drive (fly, roll, hop, walk) away.”

OK, but how does it work if the vehicle is surrounded by enemies. There are no rules to knock over people like in the editions before and the rule book says in general you need a gap of 4”. You never get out of this CC with or without the chains. Is this correct?

The chains works against the Praetorian Behemoth and the Mercurian Maculator, too. Why shouldn't it work against vehicles, too?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 09:43:11 AM by micmellon »
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night

Offline dmcgee1

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3179
  • Karma: +147/-7
  • Ask away!
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 03:41:33 PM »
well, its the same question for the wailing banshees.. which are not a vehicle, but can fly... do they get to auto break??

No.

A.) They must land at the end of their movement, and cannot get airborne if in CC.
B.) They ar not vehicles, and must roll to Break from CC.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline dmcgee1

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3179
  • Karma: +147/-7
  • Ask away!
Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 03:45:11 PM »
Warzone Humor--

Q: What did the exhausted Wailing Banshee say to his nagging wife the Mourning Wolf?

A: Will you give me an auto-break already?

That is F'ing hilarious!  L -
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!