Cheese, Brie, or just Whiz?

[dmcgee1]

I played a game the other day, and won it pretty quickly.  I used a force that I designed for a tournament, one that I thought could cover most environments that I might run into.  Let me know what you think...

Two Squads of Hussars
4 - Troopers w/ Extra Ablative Armor
1 - Sergeant w/ Extra Ablative Armor
1 - Forward Observer w/ Extra Ablative Armor

One Squad of Dragoons
4 - Troopers w/ Hazmat Suit, Filter Mask, Laser Optic Gun Sight
1 - Sergeant w/ Hazmat Suit, Filter Mask, Laser Optic Gun Sight, Starshell Illumination Grenade for UBGL
1 - Sniper w/ Hazmat Suit, Filter Mask

Three Squads of HMG-85/T's
1 - HMG-85/T
1 - Gunner w/ Night Vision, Environmental Suit

Two Hussar Kaptains

One Dragoon Kaptain

One Kommandant

Total PC: 746

To me, this is a survivable force (good armor, good environmental gear/skill), and can get shots off in any environment, though Desert (or anywhere else where weapon malfunctions can happen) would present a problem what with the number of dice being rolled inevtiably means that weapons will jam.

I played on a night board, and even with the horrible night penalties (not to mention two dud rounds with the starshell launcher), I managed to kill the colonel from range (even though he was behind cover) and kept the rest of the forces either moving across shooting lines or tied up in CC (a pretty good option when RC is at -4 just for it being night).

Is this force "cheesey?"  If so, how would you do it differently to avoid the "cheese" factor?

[Dr. Nick]

Hi,

oh, i love the smell of cheese in an early morning... smells like easy victory..



well, to use 3 equal elite choises AND use the T85 "squads" to gain air-strikes _is_ cheesy.

on the other hand, depending on the terrain or if the other side has several snipers/fast moving attackers (MV 5-6, or fly)
i _think_ your army might have a problem.

also, in any scenario that makes you move you will surely have the lower hand.. (if not a naked hill to storm in the middle of a dead space..)

==> all in all an "unusual army", but with potential.

but like most "cheese" armies with some serious drawbacks..
i would try to move from blocked-LOS to shoot to blocked-LOS. slow, ugly, but with the low morale on your side (vs. wait) the best thing to do i guess

cuīs

p.s.

capitol:
3* 4+1 HI
3* 3+1 K9
3* GG
1* infantry colonel

fast, ini 18, many, good heavy shooters (GG RC 11[+3]) compared to the T85 (RC10)

lets see...

[Archer]

Nick,

  That is a mean list.  Not unbeatable but mean.

Dave's list is one you *must* out maneuver.  On the city board which has the night night rules, this is very doable... and his list is vulnerable to a CC oriented army (The machine or a Wolfpack force) or a fast/sneaky list (Imperial/DL 'Phage/Cartel Cops

The same tourney I am entering with him-

Cartel Cops (5)
Cartel Cops (5)
Cartel Cops (5)
Dark Slayer 4+ Flamer
Dark Slayer 4+ Flamer
Sniper
sniper
sniper
Reena (she cost 43 points)

And yes, I plan on bringing a bottle of Wine and some cheeze (Sharp Cheddar) for the complaints.

[Dr. Nick]

i keept thinking.. (yes, i also tried to cramp more than 2 MHMG in an army.. and now even with air-strikes.. very tempting )


your army has air strikes & 3 MHMG, which is some good punch

on the other hand,

you have 18 grunts, which seem enough. but they donīt have any heavy weapons, just 1 sniper.

the air-strike is fickle and may well only hit 3-5 models _if_ it hits. not bad, but you pay for this by using:
3 M2 MHMG-- despite the inability to storm a position, the question is, if it is really _that_ effective?

by blocking the LOS with quick troops (e.g. the K9) you can target them with rifles/quick MHMG
the same is true of course for faster MHMG, but they can move to a position to attack and donīt wait for their opponents (and have more than 2 wounds!, just saw that...).
to move the guns around, i think you have too few grunts to act as shields.. the average vehicle can move ~3 times faster....
your guns need to shoot not move..

also, you can storm your postion. if you manage to take out 1 or 2 guns, chances are, that your W6+ models survive..

e.g.: cybertronic

1 OOS
1 diana
2 4+1 chasseurs+sniper
2 4+1 PV with smoke
2 EDD AV
747P

this army would mostly avoid the air strikes (at least the EDDīs)
the EDDs can easialy smash your army, i beg to think...

*edit*
(my point is not that cybertronic could do it, but 2 strong vehicles, e.g. strike skimmer or even 4 necromower)

either they move, stand & retreat (RC11, at 12-124ī! they shoot RC11/14 -> ~3 hits ~2 dead grunts each/round)
and after killing the shilds, the guns only have 1 W. not to forget the 18 cyber grunts.
ugly, but this tactic works if the oppontent can not storm 2 big vehicles that are ~>12ī away..

i belive your army can only relay on wait, and this is faild. you can not move vehicles (even if your oponent has only 2) around corners & shoot 2 actions and retreat or 3 actions (2 with +3 RC!!). this will smash any grunt unit. if there is nothing to return the damage (like grunt HMG, vehicles..) and only 3 guns which may not have LOS.... i donīt know...


==> in the end, i belive your army sacrifices to much to cramp 3 T85 (MHMG) & the air-strikes inside..

[Dr. Nick]

Nick,

  That is a mean list.  Not unbeatable but mean.

  but it was just thrown together to make a point.. (3 MHMG and fast)

Dave's list is one you *must* out maneuver.  On the city board which has the night night rules, this is very doable... and his list is vulnerable to a CC oriented army (The machine or a Wolfpack force) or a fast/sneaky list (Imperial/DL 'Phage/Cartel Cops

yes, i agree
however, he may be able to massaker the CC troops with the T85..

The same tourney I am entering with him-

Cartel Cops (5)
Cartel Cops (5)
Cartel Cops (5)
Dark Slayer 4+ Flamer
Dark Slayer 4+ Flamer
Sniper
sniper
sniper

Reena (she cost 43 points)

i belive she has infiltrate 

please explain that army to me?

the infiltrators are nice, of course, but are effectively ~assault rifles. only in PB better.
moreover the mercenarys are template-only
and you support with 3 snipers?

if you deploy the cops somewhere they may be stand alone (and need to move closer by semselfs) or be attacked by e.g. vehicles.
after they are delt with the template troops may be close, but my experience with them is mixed..
the snipers? how can they catch up with the infiltrators/close going troops?


i belive you have good experice, but i can not see this army as very effective??

(i would, if i ever again would play a wz turnament go with 2+ vehicles. i like strike skimmers..)

[Archer]

Reena does not infiltrate.... she is simply cool. 

The Cops are a volume of fire unit and are designed to keep an opponent busy or to whack characters while the Darkslayers move up.  The Dark Slayers are good against large amounts of troops and with the flamer, usually destroy what they shoot at.

  the snipers are there to deal with Big Fuglies and vehicles where possible or to eliminate specific models.  Alternatively, they are supporting fire for units on the move and about to engage.  With 2 wounds and camoflage, they are quite survivable.

Remember, the Dark Slayers are fast (mv 4) and ideally they are moving cover to cover until getting into range to unload pellet and flame death.  Cartel Cops are fairly tough- they can take a hit and in my experience, lay out quite a bit of firepower.

I've used variations on this force before- at larger point values, Peace Keepers get added to provide ranged supporting fire.

As an alternative to this list, I am debating on dropping a unit of Cops and adding Imperial Doom Troopers for more Infiltration goodness.