Author Topic: question, leaderless warbands  (Read 8673 times)

Offline troy-the-just

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question, leaderless warbands
« on: January 13, 2009, 04:05:53 PM »
ok, this came up last time we played.  does a leaderless warband have to attack the closest enemy, if so how is that figured?  if you are in a 4 x 4 figurement, and you chose to activate someone in the back, assuming that all models block line of sight, can the one in the back charge the one that is nearest to him?

if so my warband with a leader, leader in  back, the warband doenst have to charge the nearest enemey, but the nearest in line of sight to the leader???

Offline wmeredith

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 06:58:54 PM »
Hello

My understanding you attack the nearest model to the model you are moving. If the model you are moving is closest to one model than another that's where you go.

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Offline troy-the-just

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 09:43:37 AM »
ok, so the nearest model, in line of sight, of the first member of the warband you activate?  and assuming that any model blocks like of sight, you can determine which way to go depending on which one you activate first?  from my reading of the rules the warband must attack the nearest unit period.

conversly, if you had a normal warband, do you attack the nearest enemy model/warband to your warband, or the nearest model/warband that is within the line of sight of your leader?

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 11:46:13 AM »
Because the back ranks can move through the front of their own unit, move the model with it's first run action at the closest enemy unit, and when the model is now in front, it goes to the closest enemy model.

I hope that is helpful.  As per the rules, the first model in a leaderless unit to activate becomes the leader for that turn, so I guess there is some room to shift your leaderless unit slightly.  I've never found it to be too complicated, and if something comes up that stymies you, there's always a roll off.
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Offline troy-the-just

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 12:17:31 PM »
here was the scenario, roughly.  a leaderless warband of 8, in 4 x 4 formation.  an enemy warband 2" or so in front of that warband.  at an angle to the back, an enemy individual, 3 inches or so from the back corner.  the one in the back corner is activated to charge the individual, i protest saying they must attack the nearest unit, being the warband.  they reply, no, my guy i activated is the leader (i agree) he cant see that warband as his line of sight is blocked by his unit.

i think they should have had to attack the nearest enemy unit as the book does not refer to the enemy unit nearest the leader

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 12:31:46 PM »
You were right.  By that scenario, they had to charge the unit first, and not the individual.  There's sometimes room to charge from the back at the unit, and then charge the individual if all the models are tied up and they can get to it.  Models may make an LD test to charge that individual, but most grunts only have two actions, and wasting one on the test will prolly mean not making it into CC.  An Individual is another story however.   ;D
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Offline DogOWar

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 10:02:32 AM »
Well, first off I didn't charge on my first move.  I moved, which brought me closer to the individual than anything else, then attacked.  I believe that a 2nd one then moved and then charged as well.  The rest just moved twice or moved and went on wait. 

Once I moved and was closer to the Individual I was obliged to charge him, If memory serves, I was actually angling for a Militia, but the Individual was closer.  Now, the tail-end-Charlies were still closer to the axemen and would have had to charge them if they wanted to fight, as it was, I just turned my unit 90 degrees and moved towards the middle of the board. 
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Offline troy-the-just

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 10:49:50 AM »
whatever the specifics were dont matter, the main disagreement we had was, is it the enemy unit/warband closest to the leaderless warband or closest to the first nominated model of the warband.  that is what will give us guidance.

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 10:58:41 AM »
You use the whole warband when first deciding.  There will be situations where a leaderless warband may end up in CC with two units if they are positioned just right, but use the whole unit first, not the first one activating.

We always try to keep it simple like that.  There may be a better way to word this, but I hope it's helpful.

As always, enjoy.
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Offline troy-the-just

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 11:08:03 AM »
so measure from the warband, nearest warband member to nearest enemy model.  if both are the same either can be charged i assume.  if they charge one, and the remainder of the leaderless warband cant get to or around that model to attack, i assume they can attack the other.  than the next time they are activated they need to be within command distance of the first activated model, is that correct?

that makes sense to me.

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2009, 01:13:38 PM »
You got it.  They do have to get back into command distance if they start going all over the board, but this can also be done by skillfully activating one model to move into a middle position and go on Wait. 

When you boil it all off, the models still have to charge the closest warband, and maintain unit cohesion, but we've all seen games of Chronopia go into a rugby scrum. 

It's all part of what makes this game so good.

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Offline DogOWar

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 02:47:50 PM »
whatever the specifics were dont matter, the main disagreement we had was, is it the enemy unit/warband closest to the leaderless warband or closest to the first nominated model of the warband.  that is what will give us guidance.

     First off, let me say that Troy is one of my best friends, so I would'nt argue for aguments sake.  To me its a literal inturpretation of the rule.  Page 65:

     "Any move that brings you into base to base contact with a visible enemy model is considered a charge.  You must state when you intend to charge a model so that the ememy modle may announce a Counter Charge.  However, you must Charge the nearest enemy model unless it is already engaged in Close Combat.  You must carge in the most ditect manner."

     I guess that I have always interpreted this to mean that you have to attack the closest model when you announce a charge.  Until you announce an attack, you can move as you see fit.  If I move a leader and the distance is now closer to one model(from a different warband) then I would have to charge that model. 

     If I interpret what everyone is saying, then when I activate a warband or Individual, then I must attack the warband or Individual that is closest to the unit when I activate said warband.  Otherwise, I can only move, and use wait.  I this correct?

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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: question, leaderless warbands
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 08:19:04 AM »
That sounds right.  Let's look at something like a leaderless unit of Stygian, or more close to my heart, the Desert Wolf Warriors of the Wolf Clan Dwarves.  Go Dwarves!!  I'm using these because they've got 4 inch movement, and could really get away with breaking the rules with a 6 inch run.  With speed like that, it would be easy to move further and then illegally charge a further unit.  I say go with the rules as written, and charge the nearest unit.

If you want to reposition and go on wait, that's one thing, but cherry picking the unit you want to charge is not only against the rules, but doesn't reflect the realism of trained soldiers on a battlefield, even in a fantasy setting full of magic.  Soldiers have to worry about the nearest threat to them and their comrades in arms.  Remember, they are in a fight, not in a chair pushing painted models on a table, so put yourself in their boots, so to speak, and think on it that way.

Of course, you can make an LD test for a model to charge a further unit, but that's very risky.  Most grunts only have two actions, but if it means charging a model 3 inches away versus 1 or 2, and you feel it's nescessary, then go for it.
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