Author Topic: Speculative Fire  (Read 6395 times)

Offline Enker

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Speculative Fire
« on: January 15, 2008, 11:50:49 PM »

The rulebook says, that a spotter must make one action to establish communications, ok.
Then it says you can fire for each action the spotter spends.
So with speculative fire you can only shot two times with the mortar (normally a spotter has three actions) in one turn?

On the next turn do the spotter have to estamblish communications once more, if I fire at the same target?
Is the bonus counting from the round before or do I start with -4 again?

Does the spotter round cost the FO or the Mortar one action?
If it cost the FO one action he does just have one action left to fire with the mortar (communications, spotter round, shot).
Hmm, if it is so makes spec. fire very uninteresting for me.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 03:43:10 PM »
The action spent to perform the Communication Check i only only wasted if it is unsuccessful.  Therefore, if it is successful, the artillery may fire upon the successful roll.  If successful on the first attempt, the artillery may fire as many times as the FO has AC's.  Otherwise, each failed roll wastes an AC for both the artillery and the FO.
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Offline Enker

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 03:16:56 AM »
Thanks for the answer.

There is one question left.

Does the spotter round cost the FO or the Mortar or both one action?
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Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 04:37:09 AM »
both..

itīs quite hard to bring mortars in..

« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 04:40:18 AM by NoTrollNick »
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Offline warzoneD

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 11:01:42 AM »
Adding on to Enker's question - according to the rules on pg 58 - It says "subsequent shots would be at +2 +4, etc.

Which somehow implies that one could ultimately fire 3 shots.  According to what's posted above - that would be impossible.

Could we assume that if the enemy unit doesn't move - that subsequent rounds the mortar could continue to gain bonuses - since they have the coordinates of the target.

Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 12:56:20 PM »
found this in the faq

Quote
Page 138: Firing Mortars
Q: How do the actions of mortar teams work? If the spotter moves three times, can the crew then fire
three times using the LOS of the spotter?
A: The team must use their actions like a vehicle crew. All must use their first action before any of them
may use a second. It takes all three of crewman to fire the weapon with their first action.
-> the spotter doing someting (try establish connection) will cost the mortar a shot..


no mentioning if the bonus carries through.

since:

Quote
Speculative fire
You have to aim at a model.
As long as it doesn't fall into dead space (ie the target is a legal target) it will hit everything beneath
the template.
There is no longer any speculative fire as there was in 2nd ed. If you can't see it (either with a
spotter or an forward observer) then you can't fire at it.

i doubt it.. exept perhaps if the model stands still.

=> the rules are a bit strange here, you really get the impression it was ment like just activate the mortar with 1 action,
afterwards the mortar is free to shoot 3 times..

perhaps in an efford to press everything in the "crew" system..
the discussion is similar to the one with transports..
frankly, i would just take transported models 1 action to dismount even if the vehicle has no more actions...
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Offline warzoneD

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 01:35:42 PM »
Haha - I know I was part of that big transport brouhaha and think those rules need a revisit...

AFA mortars - I know it's not an "official" game rule, but it seems once an artillery unit has go you "zeroed" it can hit you every time if you don't move from your sport. 

My dad was a combat artillery Captain and fought in several wars - so from the realistic simulation side - the having to re-aim each subsequent round seems off.


D

Offline Lopis

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2008, 02:34:47 PM »
found this in the faq

Quote
Page 138: Firing Mortars
Q: How do the actions of mortar teams work? If the spotter moves three times, can the crew then fire
three times using the LOS of the spotter?
A: The team must use their actions like a vehicle crew. All must use their first action before any of them
may use a second. It takes all three of crewman to fire the weapon with their first action.
-> the spotter doing someting (try establish connection) will cost the mortar a shot..




But if you see it like a multicrewed vehicle, wouldīnt you say the spotter is used a bit off. I mean he acts as a "driver" giving the other guys the "loader" and the "gunner" the possibility to do their job?

Leading to:

The spotter spots with his first action and the other two guys use their combined "2" actions coordinated to fire the mortar?
So the mortar could really fire 3 times....

And I think it is backed by the rules. p57 reads that a spotter can only be used with a mortar inactivated. And he has to spend his action first.

It reads to me that he would keep using his action before the mortar. AND the only restriction is that the mortar can only fire as many times as the spotter spends actions....

Hmmm but I erred often enough before...any other opinions ?

BTW @ NoTrollNick: Where on p 138 is a section about firing mortars? I have only the pdf here, but for me thereīs the weapons list (with the mortars indeed).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 03:07:55 PM by Lopis »
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2008, 03:28:58 PM »
Adding on to Enker's question - according to the rules on pg 58 - It says "subsequent shots would be at +2 +4, etc.

Which somehow implies that one could ultimately fire 3 shots.  According to what's posted above - that would be impossible.

Could we assume that if the enemy unit doesn't move - that subsequent rounds the mortar could continue to gain bonuses - since they have the coordinates of the target.

"+2, +4, etc." takes into account models with more than 3 AC's. For purposes of a small skirmish game, no model is considered, truly, stationary.  Hence, the Havoc round for UBGL's.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline warzoneD

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2008, 04:27:51 PM »
@ truly stationary - Hmmm - I understand your point...though I might argue (that is, if I were an agrumentative type) that a trooper on "wait" is ideally stationary.  Or a unit that has held the same position for more than a turn as well...

But, thank goodness I don't like to argue.   ;D

Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2008, 04:49:03 PM »
Quote
The spotter spots with his first action and the other two guys use their combined "2" actions coordinated to fire the mortar?
So the mortar could really fire 3 times...
???
Quote
And I think it is backed by the rules. p57 reads that a spotter can only be used with a mortar inactivated. And he has to spend his action first.
yes, but  ??? ???

Quote
It reads to me that he would keep using his action before the mortar. AND the only restriction is that the mortar can only fire as many times as the spotter spends actions....

well, you explain it yourself..
the spotter spends 1 action (or more) to establish connection. then can only fire as many times as the spotter spends actions
kicks in

-> only 2 shots (or the spotter has 4 actions..)

Quote
BTW @ NoTrollNick: Where on p 138 is a section about firing mortars? I have only the pdf here, but for me thereīs the weapons list (with the mortars indeed).
on p138 there is only the general description of mortars..

it was like this in the faq...


cu
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2008, 04:55:53 PM »
@ truly stationary - Hmmm - I understand your point...though I might argue (that is, if I were an agrumentative type) that a trooper on "wait" is ideally stationary.  Or a unit that has held the same position for more than a turn as well...

But, thank goodness I don't like to argue.   ;D


;)
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Lopis

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Re: Speculative Fire
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2008, 06:05:48 AM »
Quote
The spotter spots with his first action and the other two guys use their combined "2" actions coordinated to fire the mortar?
So the mortar could really fire 3 times...
???
Quote
And I think it is backed by the rules. p57 reads that a spotter can only be used with a mortar inactivated. And he has to spend his action first.
yes, but  ??? ???

Quote
It reads to me that he would keep using his action before the mortar. AND the only restriction is that the mortar can only fire as many times as the spotter spends actions....

well, you explain it yourself..
the spotter spends 1 action (or more) to establish connection. then can only fire as many times as the spotter spends actions
kicks in

-> only 2 shots (or the spotter has 4 actions..)

Quote
BTW @ NoTrollNick: Where on p 138 is a section about firing mortars? I have only the pdf here, but for me thereīs the weapons list (with the mortars indeed).
on p138 there is only the general description of mortars..

it was like this in the faq...


cu

OK got your point. Thatīs the problem of not hearing yourself say it while typing. Technically the spotter spent 3 actions  ;D, which would entitle the mortar to do 3 shots, but as I said I got your point.
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