Discussion Topic: Cybertronic: Heretics or Not?

[Jibbajabbawocky]

I figured a good ol' fashioned discussion on the fic of the game would be cool, so, who thinks Cybertronic are pawns of the Dark Legions?

Or are they the saviors of Humanity?

Remember, keep it polite!

[TwoGunBob]

Despite the Brotherhood flipping out over Machinators and Cybertronic in general... Well if Cybertronic advancements were more widespread I'd see them as a gateway to future problems with the Dark Legion as they cut a fine line with their technology. During the rise of the corporation I'd say the Brotherhood was overly paranoid but wiht the second coming of the Dark Legion it's undeniable that the Brotherhood's concerns were well founded.
Is Cybertronic a lost Dark Apostle? I don't think so... Could their technology cause a downfall if accepted and used by the other Megacorps? Oh yes.
The Dark Legion has its claws into every corporation of course but I don't think Cybertronic stands out as a target any more than any other. Usually it's the Brotherhood pointing the finger of accusation on unfounded grounds. And the Cartel seems to generally weigh in favor of anyone opposing Cybertronic most likely from Brotherhood pressure.

[Dragon62]

I don't think that cybertronic are really heretics if you look back at 1st edition it was just that dark Sym. had a large effect on machinery and AI's could easily become amok attacking there own troops. That's why the Brotherhood was so against Cybertronic because of there use of machinery and the fear that they could easily be turned against the other Corps.

[Jibbajabbawocky]

My real question is: are thinking machines safe? I mean, sure there's the Dark Symmetry, but what if that was a one time thing, and building computers is OK again? 

I'm sure Cybertronic uses AIs of one kind or another to run their facilities, and those rarely explode on their own... yet...

Unless they don't, showing they don't completely trust their technology either...

[Pietia]

My real question is: are thinking machines safe?

Have you seen the Amok table? It is obvious, that they run on Windows and are antything but safe :-)

[Jibbajabbawocky]

My real question is: are thinking machines safe?

Have you seen the Amok table? It is obvious, that they run on Windows and are antything but safe :-)

But when my computer gets the Blue Screen of Death, it doesn't try to kill me...
... well there was that one time... 

[Pietia]

It does not try to kill you... yet. But the software gets better and better :-)
C'mon. The BSoD can ruin few hours of your work, and has this amazing ability to happen when the damage is going to be maximal. When they add REAL AI to that... and link it to something with weapons...

[kwegibu]

Yes, Cybertronic is a facet of the dark soul. I base this accusation on material found in the RPG and it's source books.

The thinking machines started the first corporate war, and created internal conflict to weaken humanity before the invasion by the rest of the the Dark Legion forces. When it was discovered that technology could be corrupted thusly, it was banned. The creation of Cybertronic was just the mecahnism of dividing humanity that precluded the second invasion.  In order to accomplish it this second time though, without machines to taint, it had to find a new strategy. Instead of pitting humanity against each other through manipulating the thinking machines that ran their societies it instead decided to divide us by undermining the teachings of the brotherhood. Cybertronic meets the needs of this new strategy perfectly - it's formation under legal means, and use of technology banned by the Brotherhood, was a blow to the Brotherhoods credibility. The time period when Cybertronic was formed was so long after the first comming of Darkness that a lot of people where skeptical that it ever even happened. There was a movement claiming that the brotherhood invented it as a means to control society through fear. Cybertronic's creation and appearent lack of dark influence supported this. In addition to providing a blow to Brotherhood authority, it also launched the second corporate wars. Imperial and bahaus, the ones with strongest ties to the BH, went on crusades against them. Mishima, who are a bunch of heathens anyway, became sort of "mutual interest" allies. Capitol remained neutral on the issue of Cybertronics alignment, because it was economically profitable. It was only after humanity was weakened in these ways that the darkness returned - and the pattern which was written on the luna cathedral walls was repeated. Like mark twain said "History  may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme a lot". The Brotherhood was there to try and make sure we recognized that and were prepared for the next rhyme......Cybertronic was the mask that hid it from the general public.

[kwegibu]

BTW, i know that the second corporate wars were not just about Cybertronic - what i should of said is they provided the basis by undermining brotherhood teaching about the need for unity in the face of darkness. Once the "threat" was defaced it was easy for the corporations to look to their own needs instead of cooperating to achieve common security.

[Sylvas]

hmmm...are they pawns of the Apostles or no?...

let me think about this....

as a fanatical Imperial player, they are the greatest threat to the sovereignty of the Serenity, as they are still contesting the rightful takeover by the Serenity's forces oft he moon Ganymede, and have been forced to hide among the Asteroid Belt, where they will eventually be defeated by the maniacal force of the Wolf Pack...

seriously...the Brotherhood has every right to be worried about Cybertronic and their rampant use of forbidden technology...since the AI's acnnot be controlled fully when they take fire, they are a threat to the human components of the Cybertronic armies, and the fact that the Dark Sym has shown some control over technology in the past, even though they have not been seen using it in this incursion in the inner worlds, is a worry for the Curia...The Brotherhood are just waiting for the moment in battle when the forces of Cybertronic are taken over by the Dark Sym and turn on whatever corporate force are unlucky enough to be allied with them at that time...

B...
I hope that made some sense...

[Veez]

Are they heretics?  Yes, they do not follow the techings of the Cardinal.


Are they tools of the Dark Soul?  I say nay.  The RPG material makes it clear that althought they emulate the technology of the DL, they don't serve them.  That said, they are not Little Mary Sunshine either.

[Comrade]

They are heretics, burn them!

       reasoning: They have a couple of machines which do think on thier own, which I believe is very against the Brotherhoods ban.

[Spagg]

Of course they are heretics. They go against the Brotherhood in just about every way possible! However, I don't believe they are affiliated with the DL.

It is kinda funny though that the 3 armies I play for Warzone are either DL or Cybertronic !!

[Topkick]

Exerpt from the Humanity Court - Case of the Cardinal vs Cybertronic subcontractor Delta Tau Kai

....Can you blame the entire Cybertronic Corporation for the misbehving of a few bad apples who flouted the edicts of the Cardinal? The social ramifications of being less than 100% true human must be considered and found to have a detrimental cause on the development of a healthy psyche. To then be branded as outlaw on top of being considered outcast is cruelty in it's most base form. If Cybertronic is guilty then isn't a mark against the corporate system? And if this a mark against the corporate system then mustn't the very foundation of human experience be held accountable? I put it to you fellow forumites, isn't this an indictment against humanity? Well gentlemen, do what you will to Cybertronic, but we're not gooing to sit here and listen to you bad mouth human existance! Gentlemen!!!.........

At this point the defendents marched from the room humming the DTK coproate jingle and were summarily executed.

[Brother Jim]

to the Brotherhood they are heretics (as is Mishima) because they don't worship as the Brotherhood teaches.

if i remember correctly, Cybertronic is providing as much, if not more, funding for the Cartel than the Brotherhood is. But the corruption in the other megacorps administrations prevents an effective force from being used against the DL.

the BH is just annoyed they can't get any collection-plate money from a church with zero attendance (but the corp provides the required tithes) and they can't find any signs of DL corruption in any cybertronic employees !! (unless this bit of fluff has been changed).

and no, i do not think that cybertronic is a tool of the DL.(neither is mishima).