Author Topic: Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?  (Read 5420 times)

Bulldog

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Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?
« on: November 27, 2005, 07:32:38 AM »
I know this has probably been coverd alot, but I am new to the forum so the answer to my question is buried in old posts.

I have only played Sec. Edition and realy liked the rule set, thought it covered things pretty well withou being overly complicated. 

I have not read the Ultimate Warzone rules, but from reading through some of the forum questions I get the feeling that the rules have been made more complicated, as in there are alot more factors to consider to determine if a figure can be seen, targeted etc.  What is the opinion of those experienced with this rule set?

Also I am a fan of realism (balanced with playability).  Does the new ruleset provide more or less realism then 2nd edition?

Thanks, for your responses and I apoligise ahead of time if this information has already been covered.

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2005, 07:59:32 AM »
The rules for seeing or not seein someone only become complicated when refering to Spot checks and even then those aren't that difficult to deal with or that common an occourance.  They only take place on or before the first turn or in the event of a special ability that allows a unit to move without having to reveal it's card.

As far as differences, CC is no longer simultanious.  No more instances of a BioGiant gettin to fight back against entire squads of people (and usually winning, the hundred hand slap was devastating).  CC is handled like RC, except in a more personal way. CC stat +/- weapon modifier +/- any weird skills or conditional modifiers (IE charge or CC training).

RC targeting is the same as always, closest model in LOS of the closest unit unless a SA (Tac Sense or Sniper) overides it.

The rules are more or less a refinement of the second edition with a return of the first edition AR styles and the addition of cool effects like Smoke and more streamlined SA's.

as for realism, you do realise you're shooting space zombies don't ya? 
Astro-demons aside, in terms of reality, morale has been expanded to panic and broken status (making it vitaly important to keep high LD Officers and Individuals around), there are still no uber god-on-the-battlefield units, and vehicles are nasty but not too big a problem for the wise player.

any specific questions?

-PFC joe
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Bulldog

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Re: Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2005, 08:16:48 AM »
PFC Joe, thanks for the response.  And yes I do realize I am blasting space zombies LOL!  I just find it more fun when the game is grounded in realism.  Basiclly doesn't suspend common sense or the laws of physics without a good explanation.

As for specific questions, I guess I am most concerned about the CC rules.  Back on the old Warzone forums there was a raging debate between the pro-cc crowd, who wanted the cc units to be more powerfull and the realism crowd (U dont bring a knife to a gunfight) who didn't mind the rules the way they were.  I was a silent supporter of the later opinion.

I heard there was an effort in the new rules to make cc a more viable option.  As long as they did this in a realitic fashion (smoke grenades for example) I am fine with it.  However if they tweaked speed or movement or some other artificial construct to allow a unit to charge unopposed down the barrel of a machine gun (an exageration of course) I would be a little disappointed.  Thanks again for your response.

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Re: Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2005, 08:24:34 AM »
CC units typicaly have slightly less armor (17~19 range) and slightly higher speed (4 and sometimes 5 for special elite ninja/monks).  Usually they have SA's that reflect their nature, as do most shooty troops, Group Assualt or Enhanced Charge.  The real tweaking came in the denial of the free-strike back and the removal of the contested CCscores math headache.  Now CC units, when they get there, absolutly dominate close combat and most Rifle-only units are at a big disadvantge, if they survive at all.

and honestly, in all realism, a knife will always beat a gun when you're engaged in CQB.

now, for the kilt wearin psychopaths wieldin swords and french braids (courtesy of their equally insane daughters).. well.. at least you can yell FREEDOM! a lot.

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Bulldog

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Re: Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2005, 08:32:55 AM »
Thanks, that helps.

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Re: Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2005, 08:40:28 AM »
If you play Imperial, and you like CC then go with the Mourning Wolves.  They're flat out your best option.  As far as I can remember, they're the only unit with both Group Assualt and Secondary attack. 

For Capitol forget about the Strikers, go with Free Marines.  Ambush + a multiple ROF CC weapon and a rididuclously high CC score.

Bauhaus, take your pick though the Dino riders are pretty darn beastly.

Cybertronic,  Machinators, Machinators, Machinators.  and Mirrormen as backup.

if you can't figure out Mishima you've got trouble.

Cartel is kinda iffy.  The suits are pretty impressive, but not that impressive.  Get a DoomTrooper or two.

Brotherhood has the Crucifers.  Absurd CC stats with a Secondary Attack from which you can fire their Machine Pistol at whatever they didn't cut down on the first action.

-PFC joe
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Offline WarlordtheFT

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Re: Warone 2 vs Ultimate ?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2005, 08:59:53 PM »
Bauhaus, take your pick though the Dino riders are pretty darn beastly.

Cybertronic,  Machinators, Machinators, Machinators.  and Mirrormen as backup.

if you can't figure out Mishima you've got trouble.

Brotherhood has the Crucifers.  Absurd CC stats with a Secondary Attack from which you can fire their Machine Pistol at whatever they didn't cut down on the first action.

-PFC joe

And ofcourse you have your good old standbys from 1st ed:Etoiles Mortant for bauhaus, Valkeries and shock troopers (both of wich can para deploy.
Death from above!!!

But be careful where you land, shocktropers landing amongst Mounted hussars=dead shock troopers. This was a personal xp. ::)
435th AI Assault Regiment "Disposable Heroes"
Cybertronic