Missile troops and twentys...

[troy-the-just]

ive always assumed u use leadership as the warband leader is directing the fire and sighting in the target, that is why he is the one unit that doesnt get a shot in HOA

[joshuaslater]

Yup.  Models with HOA like the Horned Ones Warshields, with their high LD are balanced by their high point cost, shorter range and damage 8 crossbows.  I don't have a problem with the whole unit losing their actions on a twenty with this.  It works out reasonably well.

[DogOWar]

ive always assumed u use leadership as the warband leader is directing the fire and sighting in the target, that is why he is the one unit that doesnt get a shot in HOA

Thats the way I have always seen it.  It makes sense that way.  HOA is supposed to be dangerous.

[DogOWar]

Yup. Models with HOA like the Horned Ones Warshields, with their high LD are balanced by their high point cost, shorter range and damage 8 crossbows. I don't have a problem with the whole unit losing their actions on a twenty with this. It works out reasonably well.

Actually, I have always felt that the shorter range of the Warshields HOA is a huge advantage to them.  It is alot easier to guage the distance than for the archers, and the crossbows due a little more damage, plus archers are giving up 2 shots for one hit, were as the Warhields get a 1 for 1.  Now, this is offset, some, by there being fewer members in the warband, generaly. 

[joshuaslater]

55 points a model.  You're right, they are more likely to get an HOA off, but I still think their point cost reflects that.

[DogOWar]

55 points a model. You're right, they are more likely to get an HOA off, but I still think their point cost reflects that.

  I would generaly agree with you.  I don't think they are underpriced, but don't think they are over priced either.

  I always wondered, why it says in the fluff that they have to have a musician to HOA but does not say that under model description?  Another editing mistake I suppose.

[troy-the-just]

does the bonus for a shield wall apply to a HOA? it specifically says missile weapons and reducing RC, then it says it doesnt work against template weapons, but a HOA is a template attack, a bow is not a template weapon, i would reason the the shield wall would reduce the LD score on a HOA attack.  if not, i would think they certainly get the armor bonus during a HOA?

any thoughts would be appreciated

[Archer]

does the bonus for a shield wall apply to a HOA? it specifically says missile weapons and reducing RC, then it says it doesnt work against template weapons, but a HOA is a template attack, a bow is not a template weapon, i would reason the the shield wall would reduce the LD score on a HOA attack.  if not, i would think they certainly get the armor bonus during a HOA?

any thoughts would be appreciated

  The way I have seen it played is that is does not effect an HOA... as the idea is a volume of missles fired in a parabolic arc to strike the enemy.  As i hacve been victim and victimzer with this, it i how I see it.

  A vicisous attack but one with some serious caveats and its own difficulty in working.

[troy-the-just]

archer, do you then apply the armor bonus for the shield wall (+6), or not?  I can see an all or nothing approach, but i can also see the other, it does say under shield wall that the attack must come from the front, which an HOA, might or might not I suppose.  We have never had this come up, but I am will start playing my horned ones this winter, and it might arise.  DOg, whats your opinion??

[Wedge]

While it may be realistic that a phalanx formation (i.e. shield wall) should stop HOA, it is not reflected in the rules.  The only way to get help against the HOA is to be in cover.  Trees and the like will reduce the effects of the HOA.

You'd think that Iron guard and Warshields would be smart enough to lift their shield up at an angle when the arrows come in but...

Our resident FB player moans and gripes about this rule constanty... especially when our BB player lets into him with those 30" range composite bows. 

[DogOWar]

archer, do you then apply the armor bonus for the shield wall (+6), or not? I can see an all or nothing approach, but i can also see the other, it does say under shield wall that the attack must come from the front, which an HOA, might or might not I suppose. We have never had this come up, but I am will start playing my horned ones this winter, and it might arise. DOg, whats your opinion??

     I'm about 50/50 on this one.  I see the logic of the argument, but I also think this was setup this way for game balance.  I think it is one of those things I would have to "see" in action.  HOA is the one "chink" in the Shield Wall "armour", and for the moment just can't believe anyone would let this happen.  I just don't know.  I'll have to ponder this one for a while.  I'm sure the next time we game we'll be talking about it.