Author Topic: Using a Wait  (Read 14256 times)

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2007, 04:39:28 PM »
So, if I understand you, correctly, I can wait until the next to the last AC of the last model to activate in a squad to react to it.

Why can't I wait until that models finishes its last AC?  I can wait until the first model finishes, according to your explanation.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2007, 04:43:18 PM »
As I stated above once the model is finished its your turn so you have to activate something. If you choose to activate a squad on wait you loss your wait.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 04:46:54 PM »
So if I activate another squad, what prevents me from using the other squads wait AC's?  The first sentence states that the Wait AC is an exception to the normal rules and turn sequence.

As Firing from Wait is an AC allowed to be performed, and I must shoot the closest model, how am I reacting to the model I am shooting if I act after a model that is farter has taken n AC?
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 04:51:57 PM »
I think the FAQ"s team should check with Thom and see exactlly when a wait can be used and if it is only used as a reactive action. This needs to be discussed because there are definitly different opinions on this topic. There's no reason for you and me to go back and forth on this subject anymore we are both set in the way we think. ;D ;D ;D ;D Look forward to the answer and gaming with you again.  ;D* Mod I posted same time as you. As I stated earlier the normal turn sequence is you go I go. The refferance is that you are allowed to interrupt during your opponents turn. And know i'am done with this one*
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 04:54:56 PM by Dragon62 »
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2007, 04:52:35 PM »
Fair enough, bud. :)
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2007, 05:01:28 PM »
If anyone else would like to chime in, I would be interested in hearing others' opinions.  Phil and I have agreed to let this be decided by the pros, and will not discuss it, further (we'd like to remain friends ;)).
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2007, 05:06:45 PM »
I think we are forgetting that wait is risky to use. You can fail your LD test to come off and that action is wasted. You can also be killed before you can come off wait thus losing the action as well.

Phil I have an example for you.

Units A, B and C are all on wait.

Unit A uses his wait to counter a charge.
Turn ends with unit B and C still on wait.
Unit B comes off wait to shoot a charging model from unit X but misses and dies
Unit C waits till the rest of the unit X moves thus ending their activation. Then Unit C uses his wait to fire into unit X.
The very next game activation Squad C < which includes unit C> activates < to clear the way etc>.

Are you saying that is not legal?
Unit C is reacting to a situation in front of him but doesnt affect him but does provide an advantage < unit is now in short as opposed to medium etc>

Another example
Same set up
Units A, B and C are all on wait.

Units A and B are on wait and killed by squad X
Unit C is behind units A and B.
Squad Y is nearby and unit C wishes to wait to see what they do.
Squad Y charges another squad not including unit C.
Unit C the uses wait to fire on squad X before losing it.
Squad C activates.

Unit C is responding to enemy actions before his squad activates. Seems legal to me.
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Offline luckyone

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2007, 06:06:23 PM »
I feel the whole wait discussion posted revolves around the may and must argument. May is much more powerful (and harder to clarify) than must. May means that the player has a choice as to when. If it does not clearly specify when then I feel it can be used when the player wants to use it. I also feel it states a player can come off of wait to react to an opponent action. It needs to be clarified when wait can be used. If it does not state the limits to the react of an oppponents action (timing) I would feel it can only be used as wriiten as a react to an opponent action and not as an additional actoin when the player decides to use it later.

  Practical example - I think an enemy will come around the corner of the building in front of me. I wait for him to round the corner. If he does I will attempt to shoot him. If he doesn't come around the corner, I will go and get him. I wasted the time waiting for the enemy to come around the corner and should not be rewarded with additional time to get up and move towards the enemy.
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Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2007, 06:32:19 PM »
I feel the whole wait discussion posted revolves around the may and must argument. May is much more powerful (and harder to clarify) than must. May means that the player has a choice as to when. If it does not clearly specify when then I feel it can be used when the player wants to use it. I also feel it states a player can come off of wait to react to an opponent action. It needs to be clarified when wait can be used. If it does not state the limits to the react of an oppponents action (timing) I would feel it can only be used as wriiten as a react to an opponent action and not as an additional actoin when the player decides to use it later.

I actually think the biggest word in the whole explaination is "reaction".  WHos to say that the optimum time for me to "react" to you movement/action isnt just before I go again? Ive spent an action to wait for a possible optimum opening. After everything has moved would be an optimal time to "react" to the situation. The rule specifically states that the wait action has to be used BEFORE THE UNIT NEXT ACTIVATES.  If it meant for the wait to go away at the end of the turn it would have said so.

Phil I think your point is valid if we assume that the squad that has the wait actions wins Initiative. If they dont then they CAN react to an opponents last action and still activate next whether or not it affected said unit. I dont think that wait depends on initiative. It depends on a units activation. If they havent gone yet they are atill ready to take advantage of a situation that presents itself.

Lucky   
Practical example - I think an enemy will come around the corner of the building in front of me. I wait for him to round the corner. If he does I will attempt to shoot him. If he doesn't come around the corner, I will go and get him. I wasted the time waiting for the enemy to come around the corner and should not be rewarded with additional time to get up and move towards the enemy.
If a unit is waiting on a given situation and another presents itself in a timely fashion, the unit will take it.
Referencing above quote... If the unit is waiting for someone to come around the wall and they dont and said unit is getting ready to move out and there is an enemy within sight that he can take a shot at, he will. He then proceeds to follow the given order. and you cant use wait to move but you can fire at whats called a " target of opportunity"


I have a question for you both. If the last unit in a turn goes on wait, are you saying that if that unit is last to activate in the next turn he lost his wait as soon as it became a new turn? I dont think so. I think he can activate last again and still take advantage of any situtations that arise before he goes again.
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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2007, 08:58:38 AM »
Sorry I did not chime in earlier on this.  I have been in this exact situation at GenCon and the question came up.  Thom happened to be on hand and he answered it to my satisfaction.  Here is what was ruled:

A model on way can use that wait at any time.  There are no restrictions.  So an entire unit (unactivated for the turn) on wait could use their wait actions and then activate afterward if it is the players turn to do so.  It seems like they get 4 actions in a row but remember... in their previous activation they only used 2 actions.  So there is no imbalance.  The actions are simply delayed.  I saw the logic in this and accepted it.

Confusion exists because of interpretation of the verbage, but it is quite clear in my mind that a wait can be used at any time in any situation.  Coil and I were playing at Talamania and I used a wait to interrupt an aiming sniper.  Then I activated that same unit after he was done.  Perfectly legal in my book.

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2007, 09:22:34 AM »
For the record, then, that is one FAQ Team guy, the FAQ Team Coffee Boy, and Prime.  Should we wait for Coil or someone else before we make this official?
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Archer

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2007, 10:10:27 AM »
For the record, then, that is one FAQ Team guy, the FAQ Team Coffee Boy, and Prime.  Should we wait for Coil or someone else before we make this official?

Add me.

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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2007, 11:12:36 AM »
I will except it as so but I would like to point out 1 thing to Wedge. His exsample is an interrupt which was never in question. So then I could at the end of a turn have my entire army on wait and then if I choose on my next turn I could if every model had a target roll for my entire army to come off wait and then activate a squad?
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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2007, 12:57:32 PM »
For the record, then, that is one FAQ Team guy, the FAQ Team Coffee Boy, and Prime.  Should we wait for Coil or someone else before we make this official?

I am only quoting what I 'remember' Thom saying.  I don't want to speak for him.  But as it stands we could get an FAQ team consensus if those in a contrary position are not convinced.  I see the stream of logic that you are coming from Phil and I don't discredit it based on my past experience.  This topic could certainly use more deliberation, but I don't know if we'll here from Coil until his safely back in Stockholm.  Other FAQ'ers?  Any input?

Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Using a Wait
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2007, 04:08:25 PM »
So then I could at the end of a turn have my entire army on wait and then if I choose on my next turn I could if every model had a target roll for my entire army to come off wait and then activate a squad?
yes, that is correct.

but just ~60-65% will work (exept ambush -> thats why the SK is quite good, despite cost, low RC, 5W)

Quote
A model on way can use that wait at any time.  There are no restrictions.

edit: personally, i like it that way. wait is a risky thing already, and (exept HMG in PB or FT) not overly effective. why restrict itīs use?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 04:09:58 PM by Aldrien »
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