Few questions

[fuko]

Well there are two different points of view so I think that there should be some official word...

[masherking]

Anubis31  works for EE
anything more offical is if thom writes it himself.

my 2 cents
-steve

[Ruther]

Thats why i want to hear it from Thom, who is the man for the rules, till than i simple wont believe it 

[Coil]

Is the rulebook official enough?

Page 94:

Anytime a model has more than one Natural weapon to attack with, it may attack with ALL its Natural Weapons for each Action spent, unless otherwise stated in the models profile

That's what Anubis31 posted on the previous page.

[Ruther]

Nope its not, like the Soulflyer breathing from another higband issue i like to hear the rulemaster on that, the Rulebook paragraph there wasnt suffiecent either   .


BTW how does the Totem 3 grap and hurl attacks (stated as natural attacks) but it needs two actions to do it? Can it make 3 attacks in the first action than? (all three kinds) and than only 2 next two? So much questions, your little paragraph dont covers 

I just read through my version of the rulebook and it states:

That the Totem "has" a Tusk attack, Natural Weapon ....  -> agreed on

The other two attacks both start like:

It "may" sweep and it "may" spend 2 actions to grap and hurl .....

It dont states it "has" this attacks it says it may decide to use the other two forms of its natrual attack instead off the tusk one.

Just my two cents after reading the wording of the rules.

[Coil]

A little patience I'm just checking my logic with someone before I post what I believe is the correct interpretation according to the book.

[Coil]

Ok, here we go. 

P.202

The Dark-Tusk Blood Totem has a Tusk Attack, Natural Weapon - (1x) Tusk (15)

No problem here a normal Natural Weapon.

The Dark Tusk Totem may make a Sweep attack with its massive arms. The Totem selects one model in base-to-base contact with it (front facing only) and makes a normal attack against it. If the attack misses, the Sweep attack is over. If it is successfull, the model suffers a Slap Attack, Natural Weapon - (1x) Sweep (14), and is knocked back 2 inches. .....

First of all this attack can clearly only be done when it is already in base-contact with someone (says so in the 2nd sentence). So you cannot do it on a charge.

Now the question is can you combine it with something else? Now we turn to p.94.

Anytime a model has more than one Natural weapon to attack with, it may attack with all its Natural Weapons for each Action spent, unless otherwise stated in the models profile

Is the Sweep attack a Natural Weapon? Yep, says so in the description and it is even bolded. The above paragraph is quite clear that you can indeed attack with all your natural weapons. Except if otherwise stated. The description of Sweep does not state otherwise so no problem there.

What about Grab then?

The Dark Tusk Blood Totem may spend two actions to make a Grab and Hurl attack against a size 3 or less, [b)Natural Weapon - (1x) Grab (9).[/b]

Grab requires two Actions to use so clearly it cannot be combined with the other two.

Does that make things more clear?

/Andreas

[Ruther]

sounds not bad at all 

i'm not totaly happy as it overpowers the totem even more but well its the rules so i gonna live with it 

[Coil]

I don't think it's too bad. Sweep can after all only be used once already in CC which limits it a bit and the first miss you roll stops the Sweep.

[Ruther]

Yeah i think its ok 

[joshuaslater]

Ruther--I think you'll find the Totem is not overpowered after your armies kill a few of them.  They are powerful, but there's nothing in the game that can not be taken out by a squad of well played, and lucky, grunts.  What army do you play?

[Ruther]

hmmm good question

Blackbloods, SoK, Stygians,Swampies (bigger armies) Firsborn and Devout (smaller ones).

[joshuaslater]

Well my friend killed my Blood-Bone Totem with a unit of Orc Assault Warriors, with a standard of vitality.  That gives +1 to strength, meaning they get +1 damage with their spears and composite bows!  They are already Steadfast, so they won't be afraid of the Totem, and they have a good chance at killing it at range.

Stygian have no fear of the Totem at all from any of their troops.  You can kill it with enough axe warriors leaping in.  It's a big model, so add all those bonuses for multiple attackers.  The Devout have no fear either and can find similar ways to bring down the Totem.

I'm not a swampie, or Firstborn player yet, but you get the idea.  Every army has a means to take down the big model, especially if it goes out unsupported.  Cheers.

[Ruther]

Yeah i think it can be handled just need to get my dwarfen player up to some testgames sometimes

[Wedge]

I concur 100% with Coil's summation of how the attacks should work.  If I were a dwarf player playing this totem, the sequence of events would look something like this:

Totem is surrounded by Orc Warrior A,B,C and D.

1st action:  Tusk attack!  Let's say it kills Orc A.  And then the sweep attack hits B but B makes his armor save.  Sweep attack automatically ends.
2nd action:  Tusk attack!  Let's say it misses Orc B.  And then the Sweep attack hits B, killing him, and C killing him and then misses D.
3rd action:  Tusk attack!  Let's say it hits but Orc D saves, and then the sweep hits and kills him.

This is a perfectly logical sequence of events.  Let's try it another way with the same situation.

1st action:  Tusk attack hits and kills!  The sweep hits and kills B and C.
2nd and 3rd action:  The totem decides to pick up and throw the last Orc in a fit of anger and is successful!

A little more violent and less likely to happen (given the odds) but perfectly plausible.