Scorpion Shield

[dmcgee1]

Withdrawal does not, necessarily, mean run away - it simply means that you are increasing the distance between the charging model

well, perhaps, but the rules state that you get hit from behind (P.44) when withdrawing.

Still, no bonus or penalty from getting hit from "behind."  The rules are pretty clear in that the target of the CC attack will turn to face its attacker.

therefore:

Movement in reverse has been discussed, and is allowed

may be legal, but not when performing withdraw (from wait)

the -6 ! LD test is also a good indicator that withdrawing does not mean "fall back in order"

The -6 is only if the attacker manages to get into CC after the Withdrawal.  To my knowledge, there is no LD test to come off Wait when the model is the target of the Charge (from Chronopia, but clarified by Thom to be included in UWZ).

[dmcgee1]

Dave's Answer #1 still hold's it turns to face the charge.

So if he turns to face the charge, when CC is completed does he return to his original facing or does the orientation change. I ask because you can then change his target priority by making him have a new closest target.

 I hope Im not giving away any tactics here 

There is no change in Target Priority to rotate the model in place - there is only a change to Firing Arc for RC attacks.  If the closest model winds up in front/back of model wishing to fire at it, it may have to turn to do so, but still must fire at the closest target to it in LOS (LOS is 360 degrees - not 180 degrees).

[Dr. Nick]

nice try, but you donīt actually turn the figs around, right?

everything like actual facing in CC is covered in the simplification of "a fighting chaos", i think-

and think about it: after the CC the winner would not really have the same orientation than before
-> equal positioning after a front CC is also a simplification..


i could not find a passage in the rules that support the turn-the-fig hypothesis..


-> new rule question: do you ever move the figure, exept the figure itself uses an action and moves??

(exept "conceled" (cant remember if stealth/stalk..) troops to move out of the way until detected or something like screeching projectile)

[dmcgee1]

According to Thom, the figure that was charged does, indeed, turn to face the attack.  Therefore, at the end of the CC, if the charged model is still alive, it has a new facing and firing arc.

[PhillySniper]

According to Thom, the figure that was charged does, indeed, turn to face the attack.  Therefore, at the end of the CC, if the charged model is still alive, it has a new facing and firing arc.

Oh Goodie       

[dmcgee1]

Update:  There is one situation that needs clarification and has not been discussed, yet.

A model which is on Wait may not come off Wait if charged from behind.  This is the only instance I was able to locate anything having to do with facing and CC.  (see pp 44, 48)

Further, on page 44, it states that a model on Wait may turn to face its attacker and conduct a normal melee attack (making the facing change for free and expending the Wait AC as the attack) if it survives the initial charge and ensuing attack from the charging model.

[PhillySniper]

4. The Scorpions shield protects both combatants if outside fire is directed into CC.

Do I have that right?

GFQ, man.  Never gave that one much thought.  Let me get back to you on that.

Any answer to this one?

[Dr. Nick]

one other question:

it may have to turn to do so, but still must fire at the closest target to it in LOS (LOS is 360 degrees - not 180 degrees).

-> therefore i am forced to spend an action just to rotate to fire at the closed enemy. ok...

but:

-what about a team-mate in the way, but not block LOS? do i have to move to  get a chlear shot (1īgap-rule) at the enemy?

-do i need to move into LOS, because I (the player) know that a given model is relatively close?

[dmcgee1]

The rules are pretty explicit there - if LOS is blocked, then you cannot fire.  I think that this discussion is becoming one of Rules Lawyering, rather than healthy debate over gray area.  The rules are in place to make the game fun.  Somehow, it seems that there is more interest in exploiting percieved holes in the rules, than there is in simply enjoying a game.  My two cents.   

[Dr. Nick]

its only a matter what you ask players to do..


do you want that they spend actions to shoot at the closesed or not??

-> if not, then you can make corridors with other models/terrain-

-> if yes, you can not make shooting corridors with terrain and models.


--> what does warzone want?

[dmcgee1]

If the target is in LOS (360š), it must be the target.  If the model must turn to fire at the closest target, then, it must do so.  If LOS is blocked to the closest target, then the next closest is the target priority.

This is what UWZ wants.  Please, let me know if I can make this any clearer.

[Dr. Nick]

it is clear now..

-> that was my misunderstanding in the AM 360° thread.
http://forum54.oli.us/index.php?topic=2388.0


however, one of the replies there:

Remember you only have to target the closest model in your forward firing arc, if he (AM with GS) chooses to target a model in his rear arc the other models are now in his rear arc and not priority targets.

if this is true, your explanation seems contradicory!?

If the model must turn to fire at the closest target, then, it must do so.

[dmcgee1]

Unfortunately, Phil got this wrong.  Surprising, as Phil (Dragon62) is, normally, very good with the rules.  But, hey, we cannot get them all right, all the time. 

[Dragon62]

I'am wrong on a qoute from another tread To answer Philly's Question about the scorpions shield page 145 -2 cc and rc bonus only applies to  the model with shield.

[dmcgee1]

I'am wrong on a qoute from another tread To answer Philly's Question about the scorpions shield page 145 -2 cc and rc bonus only applies to  the model with shield.

Sorry Phil.  I was lead astray!  Aldrien fooled me.  He speaks in deceit!  Semai's minion he is!  So, now, am I!