Author Topic: Scorpion Shield  (Read 14438 times)

Offline PhillySniper

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Scorpion Shield
« on: May 01, 2007, 08:59:21 PM »
1. Does the scorpion get the -2 for his shield if he is attacked from behind?
2. Does the scorpion shield protect his opponent if someone fires into CC between the scorpion and another model?
3. Who made those darn scorpions so tought to kill anyway ???
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2007, 03:30:51 AM »
1. Does the scorpion get the -2 for his shield if he is attacked from behind?
2. Does the scorpion shield protect his opponent if someone fires into CC between the scorpion and another model?
3. Who made those darn scorpions so tought to kill anyway ???

1.  YES (non-vehicle models turn to face the opponents for free).
2.  YES (it's a BIG shield)
3.  jjdodger, of course!
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

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Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2007, 04:22:00 AM »
The scorpion was involved in CC with more than 1 model already. A 3rd model charges into the fray and gets into his rear facing. Does he still get the bonus?
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2007, 06:20:54 AM »
Dave's Answer #1 still hold's it turns to face the charge.
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Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2007, 10:57:28 AM »
So you can never get into someones rear arc? If there is more than one attacker, you have to spend an action to turn to face the 2nd when you attack back?
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Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2007, 11:02:59 AM »
only if you withdraw from CC and get cought..

remember: CC is a chaotic mass. perhaps the scorpion managed to get the first enemy between himself and the new one?
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2007, 02:04:42 PM »
So you can never get into someones rear arc? If there is more than one attacker, you have to spend an action to turn to face the 2nd when you attack back?

You can get into a vehicle's rear arc, or a model who's not engaged in CC.  Otherwise, no, there is no "rear arc" in CC.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2007, 04:10:17 PM »
Ok just to make sure I understand correctly.
1. No attacking the rear arc in CC.
2. You can force a person out of a tactical position by attacking in CC with a unit that would force him to turn.
3. If attacked in CC by two or more units, I MUST spend an action to turn to attack the unit to my rear < even tho CC is a whirling mess>
4. The Scorpions shield protects both combatants if outside fire is directed into CC.

Do I have that right?
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2007, 01:54:24 AM »
Ok just to make sure I understand correctly.
1. No attacking the rear arc in CC.

There is no bonus or penalty for attacking from the rear, therefore the point is moot.  Only when attacking vehicles is there a bonus when attacking the rear arc, and then, only with AV-rated weapons.  When attacking any other model in CC, there is no "rear" arc, as all models involved are constantly changing position within the melee.

2. You can force a person out of a tactical position by attacking in CC with a unit that would force him to turn.

I am not sure I understand your meaning here, as there is no position change, other than facing, which is free and unlimited for models that are on foot [edit] while in CC.

3. If attacked in CC by two or more units, I MUST spend an action to turn to attack the unit to my rear < even tho CC is a whirling mess>

It costs no AC's to turn to face the model(s) that is (are) attacking the turning model in CC.  There is a cost of turning to fire at a closer model in your rear arc, asFiring Arc is 180 degrees, but sight is 360 degrees, therefore, a model that is out of your firing arc, but is in LOS and closer than a model in your firing arc must be fired upon, according to target priority.

4. The Scorpions shield protects both combatants if outside fire is directed into CC.

Do I have that right?

GFQ, man.  Never gave that one much thought.  Let me get back to you on that.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 04:10:25 AM by dmcgee1 »
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2007, 02:05:47 AM »
Quote
There is no bonus or penalty for attacking from the rear, therefore the point is moot. 

if you withdraw (P 44) from a charge from wait and get cought you get to make a panic check at -6

-> no bonus, but rear attacking exists (in a way)

no mention exept in this case, though (at least non i found..)
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2007, 04:11:54 AM »
Withdrawal does not, necessarily, mean run away - it simply means that you are increasing the distance between the charging model and the model being charged.  Movement in reverse has been discussed, and is allowed.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2007, 04:41:23 AM »
Quote
Withdrawal does not, necessarily, mean run away - it simply means that you are increasing the distance between the charging model
well, perhaps, but the rules state that you get hit from behind (P.44) when withdrawing.

therefore:
Quote
Movement in reverse has been discussed, and is allowed
may be legal, but not when performing withdraw (from wait)

the -6 ! LD test is also a good indicator that withdrawing does not mean "fall back in order"
"Donīt anticipate outcome. Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment."

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 04:59:13 AM »
The answer to 4 is no the shield only protects the scorpion otherwise you open up a new possibility of being in base contact with an Attila and the shield protecting him.
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Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 08:22:59 AM »
The answer to 4 is no the shield only protects the scorpion otherwise you open up a new possibility of being in base contact with an Attila and the shield protecting him.
Thats not exactly true. The Attila wouldnt be in CC with the Scorpion. In CC with it being a whirling mess why would the Scorpion get the bonus but not the person fighting with him? I can see that the Scorpion as normal would put the shield in an optimal position to protect himself thus the -2 to hit but in CC he doesnt expect someone to fire so the shield isnt in place, hes more concerned about the immediate threat so thats where the shield would be oriented.

There is no bonus or penalty for attacking from the rear, therefore the point is moot.  Only when attacking vehicles is there a bonus when attacking the rear arc, and then, only with AV-rated weapons.  When attacking any other model in CC, there is no "rear" arc, as all models involved are constantly changing position within the melee.

 In the case of the Scorpion there is a bonus < or lack of a penalty> if I can get behind him where his shield is not.  I mena the shield is big but it cant be everywhere at once  ;)
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Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Scorpion Shield
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 08:36:34 AM »
Dave's Answer #1 still hold's it turns to face the charge.

So if he turns to face the charge, when CC is completed does he return to his original facing or does the orientation change. I ask because you can then change his target priority by making him have a new closest target.

 I hope Im not giving away any tactics here  ;D
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