New Capitol Unit - Power Armor Troopers

[Dr. Nick]

Well, i think that unit simply misses in the capitol armory.
Its a classic, and capitol misses a mid size thing..

i don´t want the huge MHMG or 3 W thing, but a medium guy with a twist..
something in the line of a space marine, not even a terminator in strengh

something like the Carnal Harvester, in strengh

CC   RC   PW   LD   AC   WD   ST   MV   AR   SZ     Cost
  7      8      5   10     3      2     7      3    20    3      37P
Necrobiotic, Feast; Valcheck Light Machine Gun
Valcheck Light Machine Gun   (Ballistic) CC: -3, PB: 2(x3), SR: 2(x2), MR: -1, DM: 11

the idea is simple: a 2 W model with a light machine gun and good armor.

i change from the CH: -1 Dam, -2 PW, -Feast

i add to X: +2 RC +2 LD +3 AR.

also, i want a twist: the armor supports the guns -> move & fire (no +3 RC if not moving).

i think that +3 cost & impenatrability justifies this ability at MV3!.
the only question: does MV3 limits the use of move&fire too much -> make the unit more expresive and add +1MV?

CC   RC   PW   LD   AC   WD   ST   MV   AR   SZ     Cost
  7    10      3   12     3      2     7      3   23     2       40P
Impenatrability, Move & Fire, M-717 Light Machine Gun
M-717 Light Machine Gun (Ballistic) CC: -3, PB: 2(x3), SR: 2(x2), MR: -1, DM: 10


if you compare that to a attila:

CC   RC   PW   LD   AC   WD   ST   MV   AR   SZ     Cost
   9   11      3   12     3       3   10    3    22     3        43
AI, Resolve: 3, Level 3 AI, Radiant attacks do +1 DM; CAV-4000 Autocannon
CAV-4000 Autocannon (Ballistic, Concussive) CC: -5, PB: 0, SR: -1, MR: -3, DM: 10(x2), AV: 2

the AC is +/- like the LMG, other stats are similar. Attila has resolve3, +1 LP (!), no impenatrability, no move & fire..

i think it equals out ~

since the rubic is not existent anymore, i propose squad size 2-6 40 P apice, elite

they would fill the role of guns-blasing-burst-into-the-critical-spot and could react to a thread (moving up to 9´and still get a shot or two)
after the initial engagement move & fire looses efficieny, therefore don´t makes the unit expremely good. other units with fly 5 are similar shooty/movelike

if they lead a charge they will of course be terrible effective (move&shot->lots of shots),
but 4 cost 160 P, that is also 4 Vulcans with dam 13mhmg but no move & shoot..

in the end, a new option with the movement and a hole in the capitol line of troops (a lot of rifles (&squad support), but nothing else (exept support/vehicle))

[Dragon62]

Basicly your making a Assualt Marine Captain and dont forget the CC score should be between 9-11 as all the other Capital elites are there.

[Dr. Nick]

no, an AMC has a HMG,  they have a light one.
also, no AM skills..

ok, the cc could be boosted, but i guess they are not great in cc because their cumbersome armor.. (no cc sword or something). 9 is max, i think..

i intended to create a unit with reaction and shock qualities, hence the move & shoot.
the damage with 10 and ~2 times shooting is not great, but they should not be a competion to orcas in power.

[Dragon62]

I did'nt say the same I said basicly the same. Also for someone who feels the Reavers should'nt have 2 wounds then creates a squad with 2 wounds that can move and shoot for only 6 points more then a reaver talk about an unbalanced squad. This is just my opinion of course.

[Dr. Nick]

but the reavers have a Dam 14 av-2 CC 11(?) attack!

these guys have no cc at all!

they are inspirated by reavers, of course, but 2 wounds+move&shoot with no cc potential (biggest point sink of the Rev)
not to forget: no blessed & no climb!

[Topkick]

Without play testing I cannot say for sure but my gut reaction is to question the unit's balance.  It just seems to be a Carnal Harvester with the considered negative effects removed. I do not remember the M-717 LMG. Is it in the armory or made up?  If made up why? Capitol already has an LMG in it's armory. Also you took away 1 Dam, 2 PW, and Feast from the Carnal Harvester. In it's place you added 2 RC 2 LD 3 AR. This trade off is not equitable. 1 damage from a weapon is not equal to any stat in the game. Power is not a useful stat to any fig except characters with spell ability and Feast while a cool SA requires the fig to give up actions to complete. The stats you add are some of the most important in the game. In a game using a 20 sided die increasing a stat by 2 is the equivalant of a 10% improvement - and you raise both RC and LD by that amount. Coupling that with a 3 point armor increase makes this figure wotrth much more than the 3 point increase you assigned in my honest opinion. I am inclined to say that this is something that would be more at home in the power monger style of 1st edition.

[Sylvas]

also, the weight of the armor would prevent having a MV of 4...since just about everything else the Caps have is MV 3, this isn't necessary...

as for the unit, it's a nice idea, but you would have to limit the unit size to something like the Phoenix Samurai (max unit size of 3), and up the points to more like 41, since you are adding to the armor and the RC...to counter the increase in RC, you may have to decrease the CC to lower the points to more along the line of what you are considering...

it would be interesting to play test something like this, but the kinks definitely have to be worked out...

B...

[Dr. Nick]

well.. its true, it seem to cheap, but i really don´t think it´s a 1. ed revival.

my probem is: if i make it more expensive it will come to the price of much better units.
(also: -1Dam means +1 AR to everyone.. 1 point of armor for 1 unit (steelskin) costs 2 Pts..)

yes, the LMG is made up. i was to lazy to look up the name..

see vulcan, at 39 P and 2 LP its a good reference. stat-line is similar but weapon far better:

CC   RC   PW   LD   AC   WD   ST   MV   AR   SZ     Cost
  8   10      4    10     3      2    10    3     24    3        39
MG-90 Mounted HMG (Ballistic,Rending) PG: 0(x2), SR: 3(x3), MR: 1(x2), LR: -1(x2), DM: 14

the move&shoot may compensate this +4! dam and more:

"my" unit compared to vulcan:
== +1PC & move and shoot but
==  -4 dam, +2LD, -2 ST, -1AR..

=> seems not broken.. esp if you consider -4 Dam!!

i agree that the whole unit seems relatively strong at first, but it is just a 2WD lmg carrier with no squad specialists (until now).
unit size could be 2-4, but seems very small to me..


ah, regarding the to hit chance:
RC8 -> 40 % hit (60% miss)
RC10 -> 50 % hit (50 % miss)
=> + 25% hit , -16,6% miss
(-> in 9 A (3 rounds) shooting at SR: 18 shots -> 7,2hits vs. 9 hits. not a gamebreaker, compared to Dam 14...)

the efficiency of move&shoot may be good, but compare that to the efficiency of MV5 move&shot, dam13 of 2 necromovers for the price of 3 of the PA-guys..

after some units i compared (vulcan, CH, Attila) i still belive that ~40 P is a fair price.

[Sylvas]

I think for this idea you would have to give it a unit size of only 2-4 (or 1-3), because it is a unit that is armed only with multiple shot weapons (at short range), decent Damage...the LMG may only be damage 10, but if if a squad of four are all shooting at the same target/squad at 6-12", that is 24 shots at an effective RC of 11, and I can guarantee that no one is that lucky (unless it's my squad of Free Marines from Origins 3 years ago)...

the other thing to consider is the Armor consideration...you are proposing an AR of 23, which means that even if critically hit by an HMG, you would have to roll a 5 or less to save, as opposed to just about everything else which needs a 1...and if you add Invulnerability to this, then a critical hit from an HMG needs a 7 or less...this is pretty nasty for an Infantry troop...the reasont that the Phoenix Samurai have only 2 AC instead of 3 is that at 3 actions, they would be too powerful...at 2 AC, then they are very limited in what they do...what you are proposing is basically an upgraded Phoenix Samurai with none of the limitations that the PS have, since the DAM 10 LMG isn't much of a limitation because of the sheer amount of firepower they can dish out...

as for Wounds, you would have to give these guys only 1 wound just to balance the damage potential as well as balancing this unit against other things your opponent can put out...as I have said, the only thing that comes close to this Power Armor unit is the Phoenix Samurai, but they can't keep up with them because of the 2 AC...you can't really compare them to things like the Meka or the Vulkan/Viktor because they have to follow the rules for vehicles, and I wouldn't classify this as a vehicle since Capitol already has the Orca...

hope all that made sense...

B...