Author Topic: Unit Card Question  (Read 12384 times)

Offline Dragon62

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Unit Card Question
« on: October 12, 2005, 07:25:25 AM »
As far as unit cards placed for infiltraters. If both sides are using infiltraters trying to use the same general area on the board is the distance of 12 inches measured from card to card or from center of card.
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Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2005, 07:44:52 AM »
As far as unit cards placed for infiltraters. If both sides are using infiltraters trying to use the same general area on the board is the distance of 12 inches measured from card to card or from center of card.

I would think its from the center of the card as thats where the units are going to be deployed from. It does bring up an interesting question tho. The SA rules for infiltrate states after all MODELS are deployed not unit cards. It also states that it cant be placed within 12" of a model. Im assuming thats just a "phrasing" thing and not the way the rule was meant to be used but it could make things interesting  :o
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2005, 05:25:10 PM »
It is the center of the card/marker, or whatever you are using to mark the unit.  Here's why:

When deploying unit cards in the deployment phase, an Infiltrating Unit  is represented by a unit card, unless it is forced to deploy in MP (Minimized Presence) because of enemy LOS (Line of Sight) and lack of cover (in this case, deploy the models - not the card).  When the card is activated, as long as the leader/focus model is placed where the center of the card was, the other models may be placed anywhere in command distance as long as they are still no closer to 12" from the closest enemy and are not in the enemy DZ (Deployment Zone).

This can mean, in the case of both players having Infiltrators, that winning initiative could compromise the other player's infiltraor's area in which to deploy.  Take this into account when placing your Infiltrators at the start of the game.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 05:28:06 PM by dmcgee1 »
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Offline Enker

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2005, 11:06:38 PM »
I have another question to this topic.
Can you use false leads as infiltrators even if you are not able to buy any?
Can you use this false leads to compromise the area of the other player?
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Offline behemoth

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2005, 11:25:21 PM »
It is the center of the card/marker, or whatever you are using to mark the unit.  Here's why:

When deploying unit cards in the deployment phase, an Infiltrating Unit  is represented by a unit card, unless it is forced to deploy in MP (Minimized Presence) because of enemy LOS (Line of Sight) and lack of cover (in this case, deploy the models - not the card).  When the card is activated, as long as the leader/focus model is placed where the center of the card was, the other models may be placed anywhere in command distance as long as they are still no closer to 12" from the closest enemy and are not in the enemy DZ (Deployment Zone).

This can mean, in the case of both players having Infiltrators, that winning initiative could compromise the other player's infiltraor's area in which to deploy.  Take this into account when placing your Infiltrators at the start of the game.

I see no FAQ entry that corrects the wording. A unit card is different from model. We've interpreted it in such a way as cards can be placed within said 12 inches since the rule of 12 inches applies to actual models - not unit cards. Hence deploying units with Guerilla Training without a unit card (ie. models straight on the table during initial deployment) has a huge impact on where enemy infiltrators can actually infiltrate.

I admit I have no idea what the rulings are meant to be, but having infiltrating units adhere to rule of 12 inches from other unit CARDS (as opposed to actual models) during deployment, is not how I read the rules. Also why can't I deploy a revealed unit's models closer than 12inches of enemy models once the game has already began? I don't see a rule that would force me to do so - in fact that would take away the total idea on ilfiltration (that is, to maneuver as close to enemy as possible).
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2005, 06:30:05 AM »
It is the center of the card/marker, or whatever you are using to mark the unit.  Here's why:

When deploying unit cards in the deployment phase, an Infiltrating Unit  is represented by a unit card, unless it is forced to deploy in MP (Minimized Presence) because of enemy LOS (Line of Sight) and lack of cover (in this case, deploy the models - not the card).  When the card is activated, as long as the leader/focus model is placed where the center of the card was, the other models may be placed anywhere in command distance as long as they are still no closer to 12" from the closest enemy and are not in the enemy DZ (Deployment Zone).

This can mean, in the case of both players having Infiltrators, that winning initiative could compromise the other player's infiltraor's area in which to deploy.  Take this into account when placing your Infiltrators at the start of the game. Dave you use the term placed ANYWHERE in command distance but I believe in the other forum it was stated that when the card is revieled the squad leader is placed on center and the rest of the squad is placed in command distance in a 180 degree radius facing your deployment zone with models no further forward then the edge of the card.
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Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 10:34:45 AM »
It would make sense to have it be from the center of the card as there are two different types of cards being used. There's the old big 2nd ed ones that have only one side glossy (Cybertronic, and DL have these), and then there's the new ones with glossy-ness on both sides and they're smaller (Capitol and Imperial to name a few, have these).

Offline jjdodger

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2005, 10:59:42 AM »
It would make sense to have it be from the center of the card as there are two different types of cards being used. There's the old big 2nd ed ones that have only one side glossy (Cybertronic, and DL have these), and then there's the new ones with glossy-ness on both sides and they're smaller (Capitol and Imperial to name a few, have these).

That, and there are people who prefer to use small coins or pieces of paper with numbers on them as markers.

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2005, 02:40:25 PM »
I have another question to this topic.
Can you use false leads as infiltrators even if you are not able to buy any?

No.

Can you use this false leads to compromise the area of the other player?

As long as you have Infiltrators in your army, yes.  If not, see last question.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 02:51:35 PM by dmcgee1 »
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2005, 03:03:00 PM »
Please standy, as jjdodger and I are, currently, discussing the DZ for Infiltrators - apparently, I am not entirely correct.  Answer forthcoming.

Okay, Jeff has pointed out my errors, and has cleared this up, a bit.

When deploying the infiltrating Unit Card, it may not start closer then 12" to any enemy models or cards (in the case of cards, measure from the center of the unit card/marker/whatever) nor may they start in the enemy Deployment Zone.

If the enemy cards or models move, the area in which to deploy the infiltrating models does not.  Their DZ was defined by where the enemy models were imediately after Deployment, but before the first activation.  When the models are deployed, the must be within command distance, and may not start closer than 12" to the spot where any enemy models are, or were, at the beginning of the turn, nor may they be deployed into the enemy DZ.  Use markers for enemy models that move away from the spot that defined the Infiltrators DZ.

If enemy models move closer than 12" to an infiltrator, whether they Spot the models or not, does not change the original Infiltrators DZ.  Just because the enemy moved closer does not mean that the infiltrators have to back off.  They are still entitled to deploy within command distance as long as it is no closer than 12" to the spot where any enemy models are, or were, at the beginning of the turn, nor may they be deployed into the enemy DZ.

Does this clear it up?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 03:19:44 PM by dmcgee1 »
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2005, 05:56:53 PM »
-whew-

glad i didn't have to say anything.
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Offline Enker

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2005, 09:34:26 PM »
I have another question to this topic.
Can you use false leads as infiltrators even if you are not able to buy any?

No.


Could you please specify this?
Ok, I'm playing Mishima, so I can't use False Leads as Infiltrators because they have no Infiltrators at all.
I'm playing Capitol Navy Force. Can I use False Leads as Infiltrators?
I'm playing Capitol Ground Force, but have no Rangers in my Force. Can I use False Leads as Infiltrators?
I have Rangers in my Force so I can use False Leads as Infiltrators.
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2005, 09:46:42 PM »
I have always played it as I can only take a false lead of a card if I have one of that unit present in my force. Even then it might be a bit sketchy.

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Offline behemoth

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2005, 02:59:28 AM »
Does this clear it up?

Better now.
Having their DZ reduced because of advancing enemies seemed just didn't seem right ... since they had the guts to infiltrate in the first place, why should they now back off.

Making the parallelisation of MODEL and CARDS (ie. you cannot infiltrate closer than 12 inches from enemy model OR card) warrants a FAQ entry in my opinion.

We've played the false leads issue following the (officially non-existent) rule of: "A player may have his False Lead(s) card(s) represent any unit(s) he is able to normally buy as part of his force.".  So we've interpreted it that way. *shrugs*
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 03:05:03 AM by behemoth »
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Offline maverickman5

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Re: Unit Card Question
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2005, 06:23:12 AM »
I have another question to this topic.
Can you use false leads as infiltrators even if you are not able to buy any?

No.


Could you please specify this?
Ok, I'm playing Mishima, so I can't use False Leads as Infiltrators because they have no Infiltrators at all.
I'm playing Capitol Navy Force. Can I use False Leads as Infiltrators?
I'm playing Capitol Ground Force, but have no Rangers in my Force. Can I use False Leads as Infiltrators?
I have Rangers in my Force so I can use False Leads as Infiltrators.




Is this a new decision? I don't remember seeing this anywhere.  Isnt a false leadjust that, a FALSE lead?  Seems kinda strange to that you wouldnt be able to infiltrate a card to throw your opponent off. Kind of lessens the effectiveness of a false lead. IMO
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