Author Topic: Para Deploy and" your turn"  (Read 17592 times)

Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2005, 08:49:08 AM »
In my opinion, and how we play in my group, is that a turn is equal to the total activations on the table, and the turn ends at the same time for both players.  There is no "your turn" "my turn" differentiation, the turn is over when ALL units on the table, regardless of who they belong to have been activated.  Therefore a player may deploy his paradeploy units at any time he would normally be able to activate a unit (his place in the activation order), even if he's passed in the past, since the turn is not over.

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2005, 02:09:55 PM »
I think the answer is actually a very simple one, one that I have been following since I have played this game and "paradeploy" was a part of it.

If you pass at any time during a turn when it would be your normal time to activate a unit you have declared that you are done activating units for that turn.  You cannot bring in any offboard units after you have passed regardless of how many activations your enemy has left.

Offboard units = para-deploys and unseen assailants.  Keep in mind that, I don't think "pass" is even a game term, but I can't think of any other term to use to describe the process of NOT bringing in any offboard troops.

So to make another example:

Coil has 10 units
Wedge has 9 units (3 of which are paradeploy units)
Coil wins initiative and goes first
Play alternates until Coil activates 6 units and Wedge activates 6 units as well.
Wedge has activated all his on board units hoping to save his paradeploy units for the end of the turn
Coil activates his 7th unit on the table
Wedge is now forced to decide if he wants to bring in one of his paradeploy units or pass.  If he passes he his done for the turn and cannot bring in any more units.

This is how I have interpretted the current rules.

However, having said ALL this... I think that this is HOW it could/should work:

Since we use deployment cards we can use them to fake out our enemy right?  Well, in the game of Chronopia you can use DC's to make your enemy THINK you have stalkers, or units with outmaneuver... why can't you do the same thing in Warzone?  What I mean is this:  Keep a DC aside for each of your paradeploy units.  When it comes your turn to activate one of them you can reveal the card and say, "I am activating this unit of paradeployers".  If you do not want to activate them, you can simply place the card face down on the table somewhere and say, "This unit of paradeployer's is going to PASS this turn and not deploy".  This way you can bluff your opponent if you DON'T have paradeploy units in your army (using a False Lead), or you can actually pass with a real unit and hold off on bringing them in.  The balance is that the opponent of the person with the paradeploy units will not be out activated at the end of the turn.  HE won't have to face someone bringing in multiple paradeploy units at the the end of the turn in succession.  IMHO, this tactic simply is unbalanced; it isn't fair by any standard.  Using the DC's the way I have described would be much more balanced.



« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 02:27:36 PM by Wedge »

Offline PhillySniper

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2005, 07:36:10 PM »
I think the answer is actually a very simple one, one that I have been following since I have played this game and "paradeploy" was a part of it.

If you pass at any time during a turn when it would be your normal time to activate a unit you have declared that you are done activating units for that turn.  You cannot bring in any offboard units after you have passed regardless of how many activations your enemy has left.

Offboard units = para-deploys and unseen assailants.  Keep in mind that, I don't think "pass" is even a game term, but I can't think of any other term to use to describe the process of NOT bringing in any offboard troops.

So to make another example:

Coil has 10 units
Wedge has 9 units (3 of which are paradeploy units)
Coil wins initiative and goes first
Play alternates until Coil activates 6 units and Wedge activates 6 units as well.
Wedge has activated all his on board units hoping to save his paradeploy units for the end of the turn
Coil activates his 7th unit on the table
Wedge is now forced to decide if he wants to bring in one of his paradeploy units or pass.  If he passes he his done for the turn and cannot bring in any more units.

This is how I have interpretted the current rules.

I couldnt have said it better myself< I know I tried>

However, having said ALL this... I think that this is HOW it could/should work:

Since we use deployment cards we can use them to fake out our enemy right?  Well, in the game of Chronopia you can use DC's to make your enemy THINK you have stalkers, or units with outmaneuver... why can't you do the same thing in Warzone?  What I mean is this:  Keep a DC aside for each of your paradeploy units.  When it comes your turn to activate one of them you can reveal the card and say, "I am activating this unit of paradeployers".  If you do not want to activate them, you can simply place the card face down on the table somewhere and say, "This unit of paradeployer's is going to PASS this turn and not deploy".  This way you can bluff your opponent if you DON'T have paradeploy units in your army (using a False Lead), or you can actually pass with a real unit and hold off on bringing them in.  The balance is that the opponent of the person with the paradeploy units will not be out activated at the end of the turn.  HE won't have to face someone bringing in multiple paradeploy units at the the end of the turn in succession.  IMHO, this tactic simply is unbalanced; it isn't fair by any standard.  Using the DC's the way I have described would be much more balanced.





I like the idea of the DC's. I dont have a problem with it being done that way because you are being forced to make a choice and are not being allowed to sidestep the system. In this scenarion id hate to have to try to defend against 3 para units when I had the numbers advantage to begin with. As long as a choice is made Im all for it.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2005, 08:11:50 PM »
I like the idea of the DC's. I dont have a problem with it being done that way because you are being forced to make a choice and are not being allowed to sidestep the system. In this scenarion id hate to have to try to defend against 3 para units when I had the numbers advantage to begin with. As long as a choice is made Im all for it.

I am in agreement with Bryon, here.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

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Offline Enker

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2005, 01:29:49 AM »

Since we use deployment cards we can use them to fake out our enemy right?  Well, in the game of Chronopia you can use DC's to make your enemy THINK you have stalkers, or units with outmaneuver... why can't you do the same thing in Warzone?  What I mean is this:  Keep a DC aside for each of your paradeploy units.  When it comes your turn to activate one of them you can reveal the card and say, "I am activating this unit of paradeployers".  If you do not want to activate them, you can simply place the card face down on the table somewhere and say, "This unit of paradeployer's is going to PASS this turn and not deploy".  This way you can bluff your opponent if you DON'T have paradeploy units in your army (using a False Lead), or you can actually pass with a real unit and hold off on bringing them in.  The balance is that the opponent of the person with the paradeploy units will not be out activated at the end of the turn.  HE won't have to face someone bringing in multiple paradeploy units at the the end of the turn in succession.  IMHO, this tactic simply is unbalanced; it isn't fair by any standard.  Using the DC's the way I have described would be much more balanced.



Interesting, Interesting.
So you play a false lead as a paratrooper squad, right?
In this way you can delay the fielding of the paras by using the false lead first.
If you would have played the false lead normaly on the table you could only do this in the first turn.
Now you are able to delay the fielding in any subsequent turn.
What I have learned to use Paras is this:
Only use Paras if you have a lot of activations in your force.
Always bring them as your last unit in a turn. Win the Initiative on the next turn (if you are playing Cap, put the Colonel in)
Don't bring them in directly on the front. Bring them in in cover or behind some Infiltrators (except for fullfill a mission goal suddenly).
In this way you decrease the tactical options of your Paras, but you increase their lifetime a lot.

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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2005, 01:54:25 AM »
Quote
What I have learned to use Paras is this:
Only use Paras if you have a lot of activations in your force.
Always bring them as your last unit in a turn. Win the Initiative on the next turn (if you are playing Cap, put the Colonel in) Don't bring them in directly on the front. Bring them in in cover or behind some Infiltrators (except for fullfill a mission goal suddenly).
In this way you decrease the tactical options of your Paras, but you increase their lifetime a lot.


BWha hahH HhAhaa! 

you're kiddin right?  I'm sorry, that's the sorriest use of Paratroopers I've seen yet.  Why do you bother taking them if you're only gonna let the opponent decide where and when you can drop them.

I have never dropped them with the intention of digging in and hoping for a good initiative roll.
 I drop them  as my first, second and third squads. 
I drop them almost ontop of enemy forces (within reason obviously). 
And I let them be the shock forces that the rest of my forces race up to catch up with.
The only time my Paratroopers (regardless of force) aren't practically in the opposing deployment zone is when I can't get another squad to an objective fast enough.

The only way to open both tactical options and extend lifetimes is to take the intiative (tactics wise not game wise) and never let it go.  Choke the enemy deployment zone with your templates and fire lanes and never let up.

-PFC joe
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Offline Enker

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2005, 02:11:00 AM »
Joe you must have extrem luck with this taktic.
When I deploy them at the beginning on top of my enemy following happens.
Nearly all of them are landing beside the landing template, so I have to role LD.
Half of them fail the role and go prone. Some of the others are landing on top of an opstactle
and are removed from game or go prone. So only a few paras are standing upright with one action left.
The opponent then has it activations to shot down your prone uncovered paras.
A little bit expensive for meetshield or?
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2005, 02:25:51 AM »
Never a meatshield.

When you're dropping 14~20 guys in a couple squads you have roughly 2/3 (given a LD of around 12 or so) making their leadership rolls to be in MP.  At worst you have a 50% chance of makin it.  Of the guys, one out of five will hit the template (depending on how you measure) givin' them a couple actions to play with.

The trick is to not dump them in the middle of a pile of Unit cards but slightly to a flank and in front of a very limited amount of cards, so that those models that do make their rolls are at the best ranges to inflict an attack against a unit with limted cover and recourse.


Then again, Luck is my specialty.

I apologize, you may fight your war however you see fit.

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Offline Enker

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2005, 02:40:54 AM »

When you're dropping 14~20 guys in a couple squads you have roughly 2/3 (given a LD of around 12 or so) making their leadership rolls to be in MP.  At worst you have a 50% chance of makin it.  Of the guys, one out of five will hit the template (depending on how you measure) givin' them a couple actions to play with.


14-20 Guys? Ok, I haven't tried to build half my force with Paras.
If you use only one Squad in a 750 Pts force you must deploy them very carefully.
If you use such a mass of paras your tactic could work, maybe I try it one time.
But the luck is definetly not on my side with paras  :'(
Ok, I think there is enough said about this. But if you want to have the last words don't be shy  ;)

P.S. If you deploy them on a flank you must be very carefull, that not some of them are droping off board.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 02:47:58 AM by Enker »
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2005, 02:47:41 AM »
Sending one squad is a death sentence for an otherwise perfectly good squad of troops.  They're going to be alone out there for the better part of two turns at least.  In order to avoid Panic you need a good many of them.

My Algeroth force is centered around two squads of Neronian Legionairres and then a squad of Pretorian Stalkers from the Horde backup  (with the prerequisite grunt and whatnots).  They don't always win, but they never hunker down and play speedbump.

-PFC joe
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Offline Coil

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2005, 06:30:34 AM »
I have a Cap vs Imp PBEM game going vs Wedge right now and Wedge just dropped some Storm Trenchers behind my lines.

He dropped them in a dangerous position so one guy landed to close and got captured and one guy flew off the table but the rest got down and killed of 5 Desert Scorpions for me.

I've managed to kill a few but not enough to panick them and now they'll probably survive until next turn and if he wins initiative I have a problem.

Wedge

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2005, 09:41:20 AM »
RIght, I think in this example that Coil just described I did get lucky with the Storm Trenchers.  I lost 2 out of 8 of them, and of the remaining 6 only one fell prone.  The others all landed with one action (except the leader who got 2 actions).  The shotguns and flamer templates did a number on his flank.  He lost 5 of 6 Desert Scorpions and 2 Heavy Infantry (the Sgt and a Sniper).  It was a very fortuitous drop.

The good news for me is that I have landed in an area where most of his troops have activated.  And I can also land my Blood Beret's and Blood Beret Captain in the same spot if I am feeling squirrelly.

I doubt I would try this tactic in EVERY battle like Pvt Joe is talking about, but the scenario in this game practically dictates that I do this... we are playing were we are trying to bust through each others lines (MacCraig Battle).  By taking this position he is forced to deal with me and delay his advance or ignore me and advance, hoping I don't take too many casualties while he runs away.  It's an interesting situation... we'll let you know how it turns out.

Oh, and the Storm Trenchers were the 2nd unit out of ten that I activated on the 1st turn.  I think timing is important for para-deploy units, but I don't think you should always hold them until the end.

Offline Topkick

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2005, 10:34:37 AM »
An activation is the unit of time when one side completes it actions with one unit of it's force. A turn is a unit of game time in which both sides complete all available activations. The para-deploy rule seems to offer an exception to the alternate (you go/I go) activation that is prevalent in most games. I see the logic in both arguements and will play it however the final decision goes.

As for the Para-deply tactic, I gotta agree with both PFC Joe and Wedge:
1) Dropping a small squad is a waste of good troops  (PFC Joe) and
2) Timing is everything (Wedge)
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2005, 03:37:37 PM »
Joe you must have extrem luck with this taktic.
When I deploy them at the beginning on top of my enemy following happens.
Nearly all of them are landing beside the landing template, so I have to role LD.
Half of them fail the role and go prone. Some of the others are landing on top of an opstactle
and are removed from game or go prone. So only a few paras are standing upright with one action left.
The opponent then has it activations to shot down your prone uncovered paras.
A little bit expensive for meetshield or?

You roll LD always - not only when you land off-template.  Someone correct me if I am wrong, please.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Para Deploy and" your turn"
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2005, 04:07:39 PM »
You're right.  You deviation then a LD test for the landing.

-PFC joe
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