Author Topic: Objections  (Read 17267 times)

dagorauk

  • Guest
Objections
« on: September 19, 2005, 09:21:07 PM »
I'm probably going to get bad "karma" from this, but so is life.

1) Why did I have to re-sign up to get on the forums?
2) Where did all the old forum discussions go, espicially custom ideas people submitted?
3) Why did it take so long for the forums to finally get back up?
Excelsior relies exclusively on it's fanbase for advertisement, and the website is down so we can't tell people to go there and look at the game,  or even get an idea of how many people play because the forums are down.
4) Why have there been so many problems with the website recently anway? You guys have had your site hacked for days when you weren't away at conventions or anything. It's been so off-on that it was a joke between myself and a couple other people who used to post.
5) It's nice the site got revamped...but what about new stuff for the GAMES?

Hi, I'm a former Chronopia fan that's disgruntled and going to cause waves, hopefully spurring Excelsior to do something besides have mods tell people to stop bringing up their faults on the forums.

Offline Alxbates

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 583
  • Karma: +26/-1
Re: Objections
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2005, 10:34:25 PM »
Meh.  Sometimes forums get broken - it's lame, but it happens.

Sure it'd be great to get all the old threads (and especially the home-brew stuff, like rules, units, and fiction) back, but I don't think it's likely.

I'm just happy that EE's new website is so user-friendly, and they got rid of that annoying cover page.

Not that this really answers any of your questions, Dag...

-Alex
Wan Chew Tree Faw!

Vingthor

  • Guest
Re: Objections
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2005, 04:36:18 AM »
dagorauk


 This was discused several times on other forums, those threads were quickly closed but you may be able to find your answers there. As was stated on the Mini Realms forum Excelsior was not at a convention when this hack happened, in fact it was a week or two before Gen Con that the Brazilian group hit the site.


 PMP Ving

Offline Catinator

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Objections
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2005, 04:43:19 AM »
Greetings,

Well, the Forum is back, and I`m pretty sure most of the old ideas will surface again. It was kind of sad to register again but sometimes things get lost in the Cyberspace for good.  :(

Consider it as a new beginning!

For Chronopia there are some new releases as well, and there were quite some greens/blues for Warzone too. Hope they´ll be released soon too.

Well, many thing has changed and I`ve seen a lot of suggestions were taken seriously by Excelsior and I hope they`ll manage to regain the lost fans.

               I keep my fingers crossed.

                                                   Greetings,
                                                                        Catinator

Offline TwoGunBob

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: +14/-1
Re: Objections
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2005, 05:04:12 AM »
Let's just say that these things took time. It seems Thom & company have their batteries recharged and are making a new go of it. The loss of the old data is a complete bummer but they rebuilt the database from scratch *insert Phoenix rising from flames comparison* I'd wager someone has copies of the relevant stuff though.
We could all sit around and point the finger of accusation around a lot at Thom or Brazillian script kiddies or myself or him or her etc. I've pretty much decided to stay positive and focus on the good things *aren't I so zen?* rather than gnash teeth, cause I'm trying not to throw negative waves around ala Moriarity/Gavin McCloud/Captain Steubing...
Currently playing:
Bow House: Saggy Old Ellie
Dark Lesion: Ill Ian, Whored
Empirical: I D... Ef' Em

Offline Topkick

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3052
  • Karma: +222/-22
  • Former Crusader Coordinator - Midwest Region
Re: Objections
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2005, 06:14:05 AM »
I'm probably going to get bad "karma" from this, but so is life.

No bad karma from me but no official answers either. I will try to answer your questions to the best of my limited ability however.
1) Why did I have to re-sign up to get on the forums?
These forums were rebuilt from scratch with every bit of code entered by hand. This had to be done because some of the data was corrupted/lost somehow.
2) Where did all the old forum discussions go, espicially custom ideas people submitted?
Unfortunately it is not here. I encourage everyone who introduced something on the old forums to post it again.
3) Why did it take so long for the forums to finally get back up?
Excelsior relies exclusively on it's fanbase for advertisement, and the website is down so we can't tell people to go there and look at the game,  or even get an idea of how many people play because the forums are down.
Again, every line of code was entered by hand by the Excelsior crew in addition to their other tasks. Sometimes coding talkes a bit.

4) Why have there been so many problems with the website recently anway? You guys have had your site hacked for days when you weren't away at conventions or anything. It's been so off-on that it was a joke between myself and a couple other people who used to post.
Who knows why Excelsior was hacked or what other problems they had. It happened and Thom and the guys did the best they could to get things up and running. They also took the time to design things around several key suggestions that people advanced at Minirealms and TMP. I'm sorry you and your friends think it is something to joke about - I find that kinda sad.
5) It's nice the site got revamped...but what about new stuff for the GAMES?
Theere are several new figs in the new release section and work continues on CM and other projects.
Hi, I'm a former Chronopia fan that's disgruntled and going to cause waves, hopefully spurring Excelsior to do something besides have mods tell people to stop bringing up their faults on the forums.
It disturbs me and probably several others that your stated objective is to cause waves. Wouldn't it be better to work with Excelsior and the community at large to make things happen rather than just be a troublemaker?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2005, 06:27:12 AM by Topkick »
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr. Seuss (1904 - 1991)

Homebase:  South Central Wisconsin
E-Bay Handle: Topkick-890

dagorauk

  • Guest
Re: Objections
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2005, 08:22:17 AM »

Hi, I'm a former Chronopia fan that's disgruntled and going to cause waves, hopefully spurring Excelsior to do something besides have mods tell people to stop bringing up their faults on the forums.
It disturbs me and probably several others that your stated objective is to cause waves. Wouldn't it be better to work with Excelsior and the community at large to make things happen rather than just be a troublemaker?

I'm not going to argue any points, but I'll respond to this one.
The reason I'm going to make waves is, quite frankly, because EE has made a lot of promises they haven't kept. Thom has made pledges to improve things and it wouldn't happen. I'm hoping with the new karma system they won't be so heavy-handed in modding so that people can post critiques. I'm mostly at the point where I could care less about Chronopia, because things have gone at a snails pace with no company-community interaction. I'm just going to take the time now to point out what seems wrong to me and hope it's actually heard and taken into account. Maybe if things change I'd be more interested in the game again.

Vingthor

  • Guest
Re: Objections
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2005, 08:51:23 AM »
 dagorauk

 I understand what you have to say and why you have to say it, but a little tact goes a long way. Let your LGS deal with the shipping headache, proxy what isn't available, and enjoy what you can of the game. Unless you like a headache, then carry on and enjoy.


 PMP Ving

Offline joshuaslater

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3681
  • Karma: +115/-4
  • Homebase: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Objections
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2005, 09:21:13 AM »
Waves or no waves, that London Boys Choir will always be there to remind us that we can't always get what we want, and I won't bother with the rest of the song lyric..    I'm not aware of EE breakin' any promises; I've seen delayed releases, and their website hacked, but nothin' to leave the metallic taste of blood like when punched in the nose.  From the new website, I'd say EE has been listening to much constructive criticism.  We're seeing changes in unit packs, the pricing dropped the .99 on the end, the presentation was changed, and all of these were things that were brought up, and now we're seeing the changes come to fruition. 
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

Homebase: Philadelphia, PA

Offline Anubis31

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 152
  • Karma: +13/-3
  • Exclesior Staff/Design
    • Excelsior Entertainment
Re: Objections
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2005, 12:38:11 PM »
Ok, Here We go..
Answers to you questions from the inside.


1) Why did I have to re-sign up to get on the forums?
you would need to registar with the new forums since the old webserver was shut down and these are new forums hosted on a new webserver. Look at it as a fresh start.

2) Where did all the old forum discussions go, espicially custom ideas people submitted?

As of right now that data is lost. were are working on trying to retrieve it but since we are no longer hosted on the other server it may not be able to be retrieved and much of the data was corrupted.

3) Why did it take so long for the forums to finally get back up?

We apoligize for the delay in the forums being put back up. This is not always and over the night process. We are also workign on getting the new site up as well as the forums from scratch. Thats a lot of data to be enterted.
There up now. so enjoy.

4) Why have there been so many problems with the website recently anway? You guys have had your site hacked for days when you weren't away at conventions or anything. It's been so off-on that it was a joke between myself and a couple other people who used to post.

THe site hack occured before origins, our host then had taken over a week to get everthing straightend out. This is one of the many reason we changed hosts. We then had numerous more issues with the prior host which ultimatley shut down most of and then all of our site.

Our new site is up and running now for almost a month now. We have been updating it daily.

5) It's nice the site got revamped...but what about new stuff for the GAMES?

We have release a fair amount of new releases over the last month. you can see them in the new release section of both chronopia and warzone catalog sections.
If you have anymore questions dont hesitate to ask.

you can email or pm me. 
Jon@excelsiorentertainment.com

Offline Shidoshi357

  • Journeyman
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Objections
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2005, 04:55:04 PM »
I'm just happy the site is back up and running.  Sometimes change takes time, but from the looks of it, the time was well spent.  Keep in mind EE is a fairly small company and crap happens.  Don't you have more constructive things to add to the forums. :P
« Last Edit: September 21, 2005, 07:19:38 AM by Shidoshi357 »
'Oh, Lord, bless this thy hand grenade that with it thou
mayest blow thy enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.

Offline T Prime

  • Big Kahuna, Chairman of the Board
  • Administrator
  • Member Prime
  • *****
  • Posts: 6468
  • Karma: +75/-0
Re: Objections
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2005, 06:32:47 PM »
I'm probably going to get bad "karma" from this, but so is life.

And in and of itself that should serve as a good road sign and that you may want to handle it in another fashion. That said, let's look at your points.

Quote
1) Why did I have to re-sign up to get on the forums?

Because it is a new site. When I say a new site I mean that in every sense of the word. There is almost nothing of the old site that we could work with and we are now on new plans and servers. This aspect of the business was one I delegated in the past and now have taken under my direct control so that no further mess ups occur without a swift plan to remedy it.

Problems with the old site began with the hacking incident. We were one of forty game sites so hacked. The site hack which occurred right before Origins did some very bad things to the php code Kevin originally set up. He was the only one who knew this format. At that time we determined to pursue the following course of action, repair the hack damage and then find a new host for a completely new website.

We tried for three weeks to have people work on it. Some were very competent and expensive help. While they did what they could our former web host, Lunar Pages, could not figure out why our site usage was too high and quarantined our site. This action broke the links to the secure server and rendered the shopping cart inert. We battled with them for a month trying to fix that issue alone and while we fixed the problems with the code, they could not get their heads out of their collective asses to help us. Part of the problem there I suspect was that we were leaving them in a month, a situation I thought they should be aware of. Silly me.

With them acting as they had I became quite upset. Emails were disrupted and we were in chaos. I decided at that point that I would build the site and do it my way (which may be good or not). I don't like not being able to fix a problem and I am past my tolerance for dealing with incompetence or excuses. The new site server was found and a new program I could work with unearthed. Since that time, we have spent every day, nearly all of the day, entering data, rebuilding images, etc... Delays in this process can only be attributed to me. I have to learn this from scratch and I allowed poor back up procedures which prevented an easier process now. Important life lesson in this somewhere I think.

If re-registering is a problem for you I do not know what to say. I hope it is not as I think a fresh start in all ways is a good thing. .


Quote
2) Where did all the old forum discussions go, especially custom ideas people submitted?

When I pulled the plug on the old site, we had made a download of it (at least as best I could). I have an extensive 3 gigs to sort through and maybe some of it will be there. I plan to go through these files when we have finished the new site. Anything I do not have is most definitely lost to the ether (if I used that analogy correctly).  I know that Lance sorted through old site pics and we had an impressive 310 pics from the old catalog that were rendered unusable. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that many people will repost those.

Quote
3) Why did it take so long for the forums to finally get back up?
Excelsior relies exclusively on it's fan base for advertisement, and the website is down so we can't tell people to go there and look at the game, or even get an idea of how many people play because the forums are down.


Well, this is a good question (out of context). It must be answered in two parts.

1) The forums were to be an “add-on” once the site was done. As this was a completely separate area I delegated it. The areas you mention however in your question would be served to some degree by the core site however.

2) After three weeks of trying to program forum codes and having no success, I decided to scrap the forum build and use a prefab design/host and program it as I could. Now both Lance and I can do any forum related issues and need not wait on anyone else. Once we took over this process though, it took 1 day to register it and 2 days to set up. The rest you see. I hope you all will like this better than the previous one.


Quote
4) Why have there been so many problems with the website recently anway? You guys have had your site hacked for days when you weren't away at conventions or anything. It's been so off-on that it was a joke between myself and a couple other people who used to post.

I believe the answer to this should be covered by the answer I gave to point 1. If this absolutely horrifying ordeal was amusing to you and your friends, I can't see how. A joke? It was anything but. It was one of the most frustrating situations I have had yet, and there have been many of them. Just when we are finally in stride and getting to goals I had set we have the site hacked and the world falls apart around it. Looking back, I see now how vulnerable we were and do not want this to remain the same now. This is what spurred us on to our new super secure server and host. A joke though... no.

Quote
5) It's nice the site got revamped...but what about new stuff for the GAMES?

Well, production of new releases has continued and is piling up on my desk. We need to tackle the website first. With a surplus of models however they will be back out again by months end. We are working as fast and as hard as we can.

Quote
Hi, I'm a former Chronopia fan that's disgruntled and going to cause waves, hopefully spurring Excelsior to do something besides have mods tell people to stop bringing up their faults on the forums.

As a ‘former’ fan I am pleasantly surprised you are back. Welcome. As for the “causing of waves” on the forums with your opinions, let me just say that I can do without it. I can also do without the innuendo and the subtle jibes. If you want to "spur Excelsior" to do anything, there are ways to do it that will work; ways which will contribute to the ‘espree de cour’ I believe we should have in this industry. We do after all listen to our fellow gamers. I think many of you readers will see this in the new sites design. We are not done though but I think you can see it nonetheless.

We do not tell other "mods" to fight against your God-given rights to rail against us. Since we have had no forums until this week, I have to assume you are referring to treatment at other places. I do not have the kind of power to make other mods do anything with their sites (though it would be nice sometimes I must confess). 

I can appreciate your frustration, really I can, but the mistake is to assume we are on different sides of an argument. I am with you in this one. We were all upset. It was frustrating and quite painful. I hope to move forward and hope you will join us. Sorry for the long-windedness (HG, if you are out there, I’ll be better next time). ;)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2005, 08:20:23 AM by Anubis31 »
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Excelsior!!

dagorauk

  • Guest
Re: Objections
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2005, 09:55:34 AM »
First...the reason I suspected I'd get smites from this is because I'm not jumping for joy now that the site is up. Tone of my post probably added to it, but like I said...so is life.

Anyway, it's nice to see you reply Thom.
It's good to be able to get answers on why the site/forum(s) were down for so long. That was one of the things I wanted to know about.
I can see how you might be ****ed to think we were cracking jokes about it...but it was more like exasperated jokes of frustration. When one doesn't see fruits of labor, one tends to wonder what's being done. It's nice to see a new site, and it's a lot prettier and easier for someone to navigate. It's also good that the forums are up so discussion can hopefully renew again.

My reference to mods was with how heavy-handed some of them seemed to act with the last forum that was up. If any complaint or question about what was going on was raised, it was immedeatly slapped down. I remember clearly trying to find out what the company was doing when for months on end the last update was on the Cybertronic Surveillor. Each time I tried to post about it I admit I was growing more vehement, and I would complain to the mod who modded me about nothing forthcoming from EE, and there was still just silence. I also know that myself and a handful of others were trying to email with questions and never got feedback.
I understand that you are a small company, but my objection to what was happening was that there was no venue for people to voice their mind when it came to complaining about something. Having people's posts modded to exclude offensive and insulting material is one thing, to delete the topic entirely just makes more problems.
I hope that with this new applaud/smite feature that now lets other users rate someone's general input that mods won't feel the need to be so harsh. I'd also like to say I don't want to complain about anything, but if there's a problem I percieve I would like to be able to express it and hopefully get something for an answer.

As for how I said I'm a "former fan"...well, I guess I've always been a fan...but it almost seems like the game is dead. I respect that you have a lot on your plate and much to do, but please please please please release CM. It was nice to see all the new ideas people came up with in the old custom ideas, and the few amounts of fiction were nice to see...but could we please get something official?
No offense, but it seems you guys at EE have been heavily favoring Warzone in the recent past. Yeah, they had to wait to get their new edition, and both games have been getting a fairly equal amount of new models, but could we PLEASE get the expansion for Chronopia? It'd be a nice injection to help revitalize the fanbase, even if all we'll be able to do is proxy  minis in while waiting for official models.

Ok, some of the stuff I've said may make my post a hard pill to swallow, but since the company relies on players to spread it's game, I feel like as a player it's my responsiblity to bring up things that are hurting the fanbase (or at least the fanbase in my area). I'd love to see the game grow, but it's real hard to bring in more players when other mini gamers ask "When was the last release, and when it the new one coming?"

With all my little complaints I feel obligated to give an idea, and I have one. While you guys have a lot to do, if you have all the fan-made units still in data somewhere, maybe you could create a little webbook of them. I don't know how long it would take someone to tweak stuff to make sure it's balanced or if there are even ideas for all the factions, but just making a pdf download of them would be nice so players have new stuff to play around with that looks better than a bland printout. It'd also encourage people to come up with some ideas to submit which could be made into another download...etc...
It'd allow for players to help lift some of the creation burden from the companies shoulders if players can play new units made by other players and balanced by the company, while you guys work on your own stuff. Keep the interest primed, y'know?
(Of course, I understand there could be a downside to this that someone might submit an idea you're already working on...but as I said, it's just a suggestion that could help improve the game.)

Now I aplogize for legnth of this rant and bid adieu.

Offline joshuaslater

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3681
  • Karma: +115/-4
  • Homebase: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Objections
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2005, 10:52:28 AM »
Dag--That's the way to do it.  You laid it all out, and that was good.  I think former fan would be wrong; from the old forum I remember you as the boiling over head of steam that hungry fans of the game were expressing, and I think your vehemence is a by-product of your enthusiasm.  Nothin' wrong with wanting to know what's up with the company, but you said it, "tone".  It's what gets tricky in a forum, and can really shape opinion one way or the other, even when your complaints are valid.  I'm glad Thom got back to you personally, as your questions have let us all know what's been goin' on.  As for your karma, I'm not slappin' it.  I meant smitin' it.

May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

Homebase: Philadelphia, PA

Offline TwoGunBob

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: +14/-1
Re: Objections
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2005, 11:26:27 AM »
I would just like to take a moment to thank Thom for taking a few moments out to address the issues. I realize that forum time would be filed under mildly productive but I'm incredibly glad to see you making your presence known on the forum.

P.S. Warzone in 10mm is still a wide open market looking to be exploited.  ;)
Currently playing:
Bow House: Saggy Old Ellie
Dark Lesion: Ill Ian, Whored
Empirical: I D... Ef' Em