Author Topic: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?  (Read 5243 times)

Offline dmcgee1

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Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« on: October 08, 2005, 08:05:20 PM »
As there is no roll for a Direct Placed Template (Flamethrowers, Chem Sprayers, Shotguns/Pistols, etc.) there is no chance for the model to fumble or score a critical hit, nor is there a chance that the weapon could jam due to environmental effects.

Thoughts?
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2005, 04:09:33 AM »
Dave i have always felt there should be a roll for template weapon. Every weapon should have a chance to fumble and in scenario games where you can run out of ammo you should definitely have to roll.
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Offline behemoth

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2005, 11:17:37 PM »
I too think they should roll.

Environmental Effects, light conditions and many scenario conditions all affect RC. This effectively makes directly placed template weapons too powerful in certain conditions ... f.ex. having a RC-4 modifier and limited visibility makes them even more powerful since the models using those weapons are probably going to be alive to use them as well.

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Wulfen

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2005, 01:03:24 AM »
So wait, flamer templates don't need to roll to hit? I guess I was under the impression they did, especially considering the 'residual' wording.

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2005, 01:33:32 AM »
Nope, directly placed templates (shotguns/pistols and Flamers/whatever sprayers) do not require a roll to hit.

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Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2005, 01:47:04 PM »
That is way flamethrowers have awsome potential, I once had a 10 man squad of Screaming legionaires, with a golem and a flamer.  Only the flamer got any kills, and I still managed to come out ahead on the points for the squad (My opponent had some very unfortunate paradeploy results that put two squads of airborne rangers in a position that I didn't have to move to get any of them at all).  I think the elimination of the roll is balenced in play where out of ammo and jams aren't a factor.  Since criticals and fumbles are equally likely and have both been eliminated.  However in scenarios or games with environmental effects where weapon malfunctions/out of ammo is a factor that a roll should be required.

I once lost a game played in level 8 environment conditions, where my opponent defeated me merely because he sat his Jungle Kommnado's on wait with 6" of visibility.  As soon as I ended an action in a position that I could see him, he'd come of wait and shotgun me, my poor clansmen never had a chance.

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2005, 02:06:10 PM »
Yeah I sometimes wonder about the wisdom of pairing Ambush with viscious template weapons.

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Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2005, 06:17:29 PM »
I'd like to see the dude that misses with a Gehenna Puker...Or maybe I wouldn't. At least I know I won't get flamed.

Offline behemoth

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2005, 10:05:35 PM »
I once lost a game played in level 8 environment conditions, where my opponent defeated me merely because he sat his Jungle Kommnado's on wait with 6" of visibility.  As soon as I ended an action in a position that I could see him, he'd come of wait and shotgun me, my poor clansmen never had a chance.

I had the exact same experience. My opponent had one squad of Jungle Kommandos ... it was enough to ruin the game. They were simply unbeatable in such extreme weather conditions. Had he chosen to take two squds ... oh well ... one was enough. Mind you that my opponent didn't know when he chose his force that we were having so extreme weather conditions.
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Offline wokrze

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2005, 05:48:31 AM »
...nor is there a chance that the weapon could jam due to environmental effects.
In our local tournaments, when we use envinronmental effects, we roll to hit for direct template weapons only to check if it doesn't jam. As for criticals: I don't think that any form of check for criticals is needed as standard rules for fumble have no use in case of direct templates (-4RC). So if there's no fumble there should be no perfects as well.

I do agree that direct templates are very deadly weapons but keep in mind that their effectiveness vary on game conditions. In limited visibility and confined spaces they rule but in open terrain and with limited movement (eg. desert) they become almost useless. In fact their usage is oppossite to RLs and GLs (these are great weapons for long to medium ranges becoming useless in short range).

Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: Should there be rolls for Direct Place Templates?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2005, 10:29:32 AM »
In our local tournaments, when we use envinronmental effects, we roll to hit for direct template weapons only to check if it doesn't jam.

Now I can see you having to roll for this. I just take it as one of the benefits of having a weapon with a directly placed template, a reliable weapon. I mean, when you have to trudge through half a battlefield of whizzing bullets to get within a meter of an enemy to hurt them, then they deserve to be reliable.