Author Topic: dream warriors and crystal knights  (Read 20823 times)

Offline DogOWar

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2007, 07:13:18 PM »
your right chris, that was like 2-3 years ago, and like the second or third time i had played. i was still comparing lotus individuals to firstborn indivuals, there really isnt any comparison, i wasnt taking army as a whole. that repulsar knight is still terrifying. i should always listen to you, ill have to tell your wife that as well, see you next saturday
     The Repulsar Knight still terrifies me. :'(   Yeah, that was a few years ago, too bad we don't get a chance to play more often.  I wouldn't worry to much about listening to me, you seem to be doing fine on your own. :)  I have always felt the CL was a solid army, and the Dream Warriors are just plain cool.
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Offline DogOWar

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2007, 06:22:42 PM »
If it was me, I would work it just as you were solving a mathematical equation, which is exactly what this is.

1. Multiply
2. Divide
3. Add
4. Subtract

So if I was judging this scenario, I would divide the CC in half (rounded up), then subtract 2, giving a to-hit of 6.

Yes, the 1/2 then subtracting 2 does favor the elves in this situation, as it rightly should, in my opinion. Anyone foolish enough to get caught between Dream Warriors AND a Crystal Knight deserves exactly what they get. ;D

SP

OK, I have been thinking this over and brought it up with troy-the-just the last time we played.  This method works well for the Dream Warriors as long as there is a crystal knight on its side.  But lets examine other situations where it does not benfit them:

   An archer is shooting at a Dream Warrior and decides to aim.  Doing it by the rule of math means that you would half its RC and then add the +4 bonus for aim.  In this situation the dream warrior does not have it so good.  It also means the abilities like group attack and berserk would be very advantageous (and maybe they should be).

 I really don't have a problem doing it either way, I just want to make sure that the pros and cons are understood.   
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Offline Southpaw

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2007, 06:33:33 AM »
OK, I have been thinking this over and brought it up with troy-the-just the last time we played.  This method works well for the Dream Warriors as long as there is a crystal knight on its side.  But lets examine other situations where it does not benfit them:

   An archer is shooting at a Dream Warrior and decides to aim.  Doing it by the rule of math means that you would half its RC and then add the +4 bonus for aim.  In this situation the dream warrior does not have it so good.  It also means the abilities like group attack and berserk would be very advantageous (and maybe they should be).

 I really don't have a problem doing it either way, I just want to make sure that the pros and cons are understood.   


There are pros and cons to both methods, depending upon certain figures in certain situations, but, I think, it does balance out in the end, by keeping things congruent and even, it prevents possible other situations from arising.

In the situation you mentioned above, yes the final resut does favor the archer. Using an exmaple of RC 10, you get a final result of 9 if you halve first, then add +4, versus RC 7 if you add first, then divide.

Should this situation favor the archer? Yes, I believe it should.

In games such as this, it's all about checks and balances. One must weigh the advantages of the stat line versus potential disadvantages, to create as balanced a game as possible, in theory of course.

The Dream Warriors have a couple of abilities that are rarely used, and no doubt on the pricey list in the point scheme of things: Feint and Magic Resistance. Combined with their Phasing, decent CC, AND a 2-handed weapon, you get a model that, in my opinion mind you, is a steal for its point cost.

It does have one glaring weakness: an abysmal AR of 12. Therein lies the key. For all their bonuses, a unit must have a weak point, otherwise an unbalance in the game system is created. For the Dream Warriors, it is that low armor value.

So, applying mathematical principles to every situation does not always benefit the same model in the same situation. This is as it should be, I feel. Math is a fickle lady, to say the least, and miniature gaming even moreso. No, it won't benefit the same model in every situation, nor should it. It all comes down to a balance issue.

SP

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Offline Topkick

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2007, 06:52:57 AM »
*sniff* I'm so proud. I was afraid no one was listening all those years I was pontificating about game balance and here Southpaw states the case eloquently. Karma to you my friend
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Offline Southpaw

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2007, 07:17:44 AM »
I learned from the best, big bro. Karma back at you.

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Offline DogOWar

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2007, 12:40:10 PM »
While searching the different FAQs I came across the answer for this.  Sorry, should have looked there first.  Thanks for taking the time out to answer the question Southpaw.
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Offline Southpaw

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2007, 08:50:29 AM »
My pleasure, as always. Didn't realize it had already been posted in the FAQ. I'll print it out and review.

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Offline PhillySniper

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2007, 06:30:26 AM »
This combo is a very nasty one. Ive used it recently. The only point I have to make is ...
 
DONT LET THEM GET CAUGHT BY A HAIL OF ARROWS  :(
.
I didnt realise until recently that HOA ignores their phasing ability. Its a mistake I wont make again  ;)
The Crystal Knight makes everyone around him better. Try putting him with a large warband of militia and watch the effort that has to go into getting rid of them. At worst they become a very nasty diversion at best they can tie up alot of points.
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Offline DogOWar

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2007, 08:53:32 PM »
I think that the Crystal Knight/Dream Warrior combo is one of the nastiest in the game. 
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Offline Coldthunder

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2007, 01:35:58 PM »
The Crystal Knight's Affect is enviromental and should take effect first where as the attack on the Dream Warriors is due to an action on the part of the attackers. Due to the timeing The minus two should come before the Halving. ;D
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Offline troy-the-just

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crystal knights
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2007, 12:20:35 PM »
does the crystal knights aurora have any additional effects on cold blooded creatures?  is his attack cold based

Offline DogOWar

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2007, 05:43:07 PM »
does the crystal knights aurora have any additional effects on cold blooded creatures?  is his attack cold based

I would say no, unless otherwise stated in the book.
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Offline troy-the-just

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2007, 07:20:05 AM »
thats kinda what i thought, but it is a extreme cold auora, it woudl make sense that it effects cold blooded more

Offline DogOWar

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Re: dream warriors and crystal knights
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2007, 03:23:35 PM »
I agree, but liike alot of stuff, it just ain't in the book. :(
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