Chronopa & Warzone dynamics

[joshuaslater]

As I've been organizing events lately and meeting new gamers, I've gotten to finally play my first demo game of Warzone, and in turn, play two games of Chronopia with Bryon Gray (PhillySniper).  After last night's game we discussed the differences in style of play, rules, speed of game, points, etc. and found we could have continued comparing and contrasting for a long time.

The whole 1 and 20 thing bothered Bryon about Chronopia--he found it alien that a 1 would be an automatic hit, and not allow an armor save, even at a penalty like in Warzone.  Me, I've played Chronopia so long that I just take it as part of the game.

Two actions vs. Three actions.  Some people find this quicker, others think slower, and I'm referring to either side you agree on!!

I wanted to hear some opinions from people who primarily play one game, and are picking up the other.  Matters of taste notwithstanding, as some people are sci-fi, and some strictly fantasy.  What makes picking up the one you've not played easier???

Bryon has been totally cool about learning Chronopia.  He's a very competetive player who insists on not being softballed.  He's also been honest enough with me to tell me he couldn't dummy down a Warzone army to teach me the game without just kicking my butt.  How have you guys found teaching/learning the other game to go in your experience???

[Dragon62]

Just remember 1 thing when you are running a Demo it is important for the people your teaching to have a great time. Never run a Demo with the intention of kicking your student's butt thats not fun for them. If you remember at  Between Books when I ran the game for William I gave him the better army and still had fun playing and he enjoyed himself and now has built a warzone army. Thats how you get people hooked. Remember you can always kick butt later when they learned the game.

[DogOWar]

     I've personally never had a problem with the 1 and 20 situation (and last time I palyed I had several Indv. who rolled 20's at crucial times that probably cost me the game, but those are the breaks).  It echos most of the RPGs I play so it never seemed out of place.  I tend to think it keeps players "honest" with their tactics, otherwise you would have Individuals attacking units that stood almost no chance of wounding them, which sort of reminds me of 1st edition.  I've never played UWZ, although I own the book just have not had any opponents so I have not bought the army yet, but there seems to be alot more action(combat) due to everyone(mostly) having ranged weapons, i.e. more 20 dice arolling.  As I've said I have not had a chance to play UWZ, but will read the book again when I get the chance. 
     

[Glenn M]

Actually in my experience with Demo's it is always best to play totally fair, most people don't mind losing as long as they had a fair and fun time.  Don't pull any real tricks and use straightforward gameplay, but if you win, then you won, no big deal.

Anyways, I pick up new games very easily, though I often compare them to games that are similar that I like.

[PhillySniper]

This post is my opinion and my feelings. It is not meant to take shots at anyone or demean anything that people enjoy doing.

Bryon has been totally cool about learning Chronopia.  He's also been honest enough with me to tell me he couldn't dummy down a Warzone army to teach me the game without just kicking my butt. 

Just remember 1 thing when you are running a Demo it is important for the people your teaching to have a great time. Never run a Demo with the intention of kicking your student's butt thats not fun for them.

My intention was to make the point that I am not and would not be a good teacher of the game to someone. I enjoy the game, but I AM extremely competitive. I play to win. Even if I lose, I take something from the game. If I am teaching the game I am not having fun and not showing the enthusiasm that the game deserves.
I play my games differently than I am in real life. So when gaming I wouldnt make a good teacher. Even teaching my son to play. I show him what everything means, what models do, help him design a force and we play. Ill show him mistakes AFTER the game. That approach might not and probably wouldnt work with everyone. My son just hates to lose and it makes him play harder.

Josh has been great in teaching me Chronopia. He has played the game and forced me to learn quickly, but has also answered any questions I had and is extremely patient when I have to look up a rule to make sure I understand it. I appreciate everything he has done to date.

After learning UWZ, Chronopia is a different animal altogether.
The automatic wound on a "1" takes some getting used to. I dont like the idea of a single die roll taking the strategy out of a strategy game. But it is the game mechanic and Ill have to learn to take that into account when playing.
Being able to fire a template weapon into CC without hitting your own guy is a bit strange.
The 2 action part of the game makes me have to plan farther ahead and try to think of possible reactions. and makes the game move faster < that and the fact that the points differences between the two games, means that you generally have fewer figs on the board for Chronopia than UWZ>

There are other things that are different to me but I dont want this to seem like Im Chronopia bashing. Its a really cool game. Im having a blast playing it. I wasnt a big fantasy fan but the sculpts and the CC oriented nature of the game has caught my attention! I look forward to my Tuesday nite games with Josh.

[joshuaslater]

I'm starting to look forward to learning Warzone and playing Phil and Bryon and McGee and Dodger and Archer, and anyone around, but remember, Joshua Slater is not the swiftest cat, even on a good day.

Last night I went to Dalton's for our Wednesday night D&D game.  New campaign.  Six players.  First level.  We get into combat on a ship we are trying to reclaim in a harbor.  I'm going crosseyed trying to remember the damn rules!!!  One of the other players broke my balls saying, "have you ever played this game before?"

I had to explain that within the last two weeks I've played a game of Reaper's Warlord, Chronopia, then Chronopia again with a Warzone demo (Lucas KILLED me!!!)  Now back to D&D.  Tonight I'm meeting some people for a beginning Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay game.   I'll be lucky if I remember my own name soon.

I'm glad Bryon's been honest with me about his demo/teaching style.  Knowing that beforehand, I think I can handle the beatdown method of instruction.  Dalton whooped my Dwarves something like twenty times in a row when we were learning Chronopia (incorrectly a lot,) before I started winning.  I'll be able to hang with defeat when I start learning Warzone.  The one thing that makes things difficult is not having a pic of all the models for Warzone.  I know that Coki has this for Chronopia on his site, but is there a Warzone reference like this?  It would make it easier for players to get a hold of some of the game by seeing what the models are.  Bryon's been cool learning the Chronopia models on the fly!!  Guts, I tell ya.

It does take some getting used to going from Chronopia to Warzone.  I'm sure learning Chronopia from Warzone takes getting used to as well.

P.S.  I'm not hearing any bashing of either game from anyone.  We're all just gamers around here, and talking about these two means doubling the amount of gaming we get to potentially do.  Throwing dice and pushing pewter.

I see lead people.

[masherking]

to philly:

Chronopia is a blast to play and your right with 2 actions and lack of range combat you really do have to plan you moves ahead.  I've always found Chronopia to more of thinking game where resource mangament, Army comp, and some ahead planning really pay off. HINT: Movement (in how and where)is so important in this game.

on rolls of 1's and 20's. I find this adds a very very kool Conan Vibe to the game. having the lone warrior jump on the back of some big beastie, roll a 1...AUTO WOUND. yeah you'll grow to love it.  The Heart break of 20's is like an old pulp story were a reversal of fortune gives said heros a CHANCE to come back.  This simiple game feature is also great game balancer, it means anything can die or fail    

"Being able to fire a template weapon into CC without hitting your own guy is a bit strange"-philly

Did the template touch your own guys or was it place so to avoid that?

All in all I found Chronopia to be more Dramatic then warzone ( and I do LOVE warzone).
ex: The Blood totem that leap from castle wall to castle wall to castle wall just to charge the one guy there holding the objective...AWESOME

I've had some Great wargaming moments with chronopia.

[PhillySniper]

"Being able to fire a template weapon into CC without hitting your own guy is a bit strange"-philly

Did the template touch your own guys or was it place so to avoid that?

The template only touched my guy.
I understand that warzone and chronopia are different but if two guys are fighting using swords/axes/spears etc, that makes the point stand out more that they should both get hit by flame. The concept of CC is a whirling mass of armed conflict. To be able to pick out one fig in that mass < without the SA to do so> doesnt make sense to me. I know that it works both ways, but I still have trouble wrapping my mind around that concept.

I can understand the 1 and 20 component but < here goes the forbidden word in wargaming> to not hit both figs in CC with a flame isnt logical

[masherking]

"Being able to fire a template weapon into CC without hitting your own guy is a bit strange"-philly

Did the template touch your own guys or was it place so to avoid that?

The template only touched my guy.
I understand that warzone and chronopia are different but if two guys are fighting using swords/axes/spears etc, that makes the point stand out more that they should both get hit by flame. The concept of CC is a whirling mass of armed conflict. To be able to pick out one fig in that mass < without the SA to do so> doesnt make sense to me. I know that it works both ways, but I still have trouble wrapping my mind around that concept.

I can understand the 1 and 20 component but < here goes the forbidden word in wargaming> to not hit both figs in CC with a flame isnt logical

It helps to not look at CC with any abstract notions, what you see is what you get .
If the templates hits you burn if not you live. I myself like it better this way. very simiple.

glad to hear you enjoyed yourself
maybe one day you can face off against my Dwarves 

[joshuaslater]

I think when comparing the size of the templates for flamethrowers in Warzone versus a flame lance from a Warrior of the Golden Mask, then I see it.  For purposes of balance, that might change this individuals point cost.  He's already one of the few individuals with only two actions!!  And he's not Steadfast!!  

I do see your point Bryon, but remember, when you field the Soul Flayer, she uses the same flame template, and despite the fact that she'll be frying my guys in addition to causing Dread, she is the only model that can use her template weapon in CC.  Trust me, it all balances out.  

Pretty soon you'll be fighting fire with fire.  

I'm starting to see the dichotomy between Sci-fi and Fantasy.  It's a different vibe, but both are cool.  Masherking--shout out and karma as always.

[PhillySniper]

I think when comparing the size of the templates for flamethrowers in Warzone versus a flame lance from a Warrior of the Golden Mask, then I see it.  For purposes of balance, that might change this individuals point cost.  He's already one of the few individuals with only two actions!!  And he's not Steadfast!!  

I do see your point Bryon, but remember, when you field the Soul Flayer, she uses the same flame template, and despite the fact that she'll be frying my guys in addition to causing Dread, she is the only model that can use her template weapon in CC.  Trust me, it all balances out.  

Pretty soon you'll be fighting fire with fire.  

I'm starting to see the dichotomy between Sci-fi and Fantasy.  It's a different vibe, but both are cool.  Masherking--shout out and karma as always.

What does size have to do with it? ...< no comments from the peanut gallery.. namely me> Im not saying that I wont use the tactic, just that it doesnt make alot of sense to me.

I do like the 40% limit on shooters. It forces you to have to move more carefully and strategically. I think that is the biggest difference in the two games.

[joshuaslater]

I know what you're saying.  The dynamics of templates in Chronopia will become familiar to you, and you will simply use them in your arsenal of tricks to beat Joshua Slater in his own home.  Sigh.

I see your point Bryon, and maybe we'll dig deep into the rules or ask Thom why the two games differ so.

[Anubis31]

Josh just loves the 1 as a critical hit..... doesnt he...........

repulsar marksman, not gonna aim ill take my chance......1 critical......1 critical.....6 (hit)

[joshuaslater]

Cue sound of leather glove slapping J.P.'s face, wiping the smarmy grin from it...  You knave.  The challenge is on.

[dmcgee1]

I see lead people.

Nice