Author Topic: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.  (Read 16159 times)

Offline joshuaslater

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Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« on: September 27, 2005, 11:48:00 AM »
It would be nice to have an official EE posting of what's expected from players in tournament play at conventions.  When my friends and I attended an EE demo, it was pretty loose, in that everyone was there to get introduced to the game and learn the rules, and have a great time to boot.  No one worried about half painted minis and such.  So with a tournament at a convention, it would be nice to have guidelines on things like painting and basing, just so people know what to expect.  Cheers.
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2005, 12:01:37 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, and for events that I run,  the only naked metal allowed is on mini's purchased at the event.

That said at least prime the models.  A portion of the overall grading and tourney points system is based on army presentation and style.   SO it would behoove you to take your time with models. 

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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2005, 12:12:00 PM »
I'm not worried about my guys, but just having some guidelines would be cool for the masses.
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zan

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2005, 12:33:56 PM »
maybe requiring at least two colours on the mini is a good idea? that's the way we do it in Poland, but we have to wait for some Polish tournament veterans to spill the beans as I've never been to one yet (furiously painting my capitol to attend one though :) )

Offline T Prime

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2005, 05:21:00 PM »
Officially we prefer painted models which consists of primed minis and three colors minimum. That is the basic level. We don't turn away anyone fom regular gaming and demos.
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Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2005, 11:32:58 PM »
The shop I work for has some guidelines that I've found actually quite useful and encouraging more than excluding. Three colors minimum, no primer showing (ink the white, and drybrush the black), bases must be painted and flocked/sanded (if you want to do an industrial base put some pipes or use glue for the rivits or something).

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 09:37:37 AM »
Cool.  I think Thom's post should have a pinned chumpie at the top of the Painting and Terrain sections.  I know from my experience that Excelsior does not turn people away, but players new to the game and this forum might find it helpful.  Cheers.
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Offline maverickman5

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2005, 09:42:16 AM »
While I think it looks much better when a force is painted, and believe that some standard should be in place, I do not believe that any part of your ranking in a tournament should be based on either your painting skill or your cheerfulness during game play.  That being said I am not a jerk to play against(at least I don't thinks so) and am not a usual winner in our group, so I am pretty much just in it to have fun. BUT, when I am in a tournament I am very concentrated on my strategy and often do not joke or fool around.  I dont believe that a good player(of which I am not) should be penalised for his demeanor.  If there is a sportsmanship prize, than by all means dont give him a prize, but it should not be part of his score or ranking.

Just a rant, I play in a very competitive store where we have a high level of play.  If it is a fun game  we have fun. if it is a Tournament it is intense and no nonsense.

Just my thoughts, no offense to any that feel different.

Glenn ;D
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Offline Coil

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2005, 10:17:36 AM »
I agree with you about the sportsmanship score Glenn. In the tournaments I have played in that have had sportsmanshop scoring, I have observed quite a high correlation between the score you are given and the result of the game. There is a certain type of gamer who will give you a very low score if you beat them no matter how nice and fair you play.

Best sportsmanship or Great Gamer should be a separate award IMO.

/Andreas

lancekilljoy

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2005, 11:11:44 AM »
i think it just hurts too much to have your painted force that you have invested a lot of time in get demolished by bare metal...  :'(

that being said, i don't mind playing against unpainted forces, especially if it gets more people into the game!  ;D

Offline maverickman5

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2005, 12:01:10 PM »
i think it just hurts too much to have your painted force that you have invested a lot of time in get demolished by bare metal...  :'(


of course it does, but I hate to see my troops fall to beautifully painted figs as well.  Actually I prefer if they just dont get demolished ;), but the player that demolishes my force with his unpainted/badly painted figs should not be punished in a formal setting.  In a fun game tease the hell out of them for being a slacker/punk/whatever else comes to mind and not painting their figs;D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 12:02:45 PM by maverickman5 »
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Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2005, 05:35:14 PM »
The sportsmanship and painting aspects are included in alot of tournaments because tournaments are supposed to be a showcase of the entire hobby, if you have a sour dude with some half-painted legs on bases it doesn't look good and doesn't give a very good impression of the hobby.

Not just as a showcase (which I think is a valid reason for conventions, etc. as people wander around and will invariably make their way to the Excelsior stand) because some people play in closed tournaments (ie. not within view of non-EE gamers), but tournaments should be a competition in ALL ASPECTS OF PLAY! Tournaments are supposed to determine the best of the best. And in my eyes a guy can be a great gamer but if he doesn't TRY to paint his models he's just another boardgamer-come-TTGer (who needs some encouragement in other areas of TTGing).
« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 05:39:21 PM by Steel Rabbit »

Offline Topkick

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2005, 05:42:15 PM »
Rather than including them as an aspect of the overall score I would prefer to see a seperate Best Painted and a Sportsmansahip award given. I've got friends who play in tourneys where it is figured in the score and it leads to people fragging the subjective parts (painting and sportsmanship) of their opponents to help a buddy or themselves win.
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Offline maverickman5

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2005, 08:00:37 AM »
SteelRabbit: I agree that their should be some minimum stazndard to be allowed to play, but the fact that a player is not a skilled painter should not detract from a tournament score if the went extremely dominant in game play.  Some of the friendliest gamers I know, cant paint worth a damn, it doesnt make the game any less fun to play them, but if they win they could have their tournament score reduced due to bad paint?  Doesnt seem like gamer spirit to me. 

on the other hand, one of the best gamers I know is not the most friendly player to play.  he isnt rude or a jerk, but he plays for blood, his every action is to destroy his opponent on the field.  Should he be penalised in a tournament because he didnt smile at his opponent? I dont thinks so either.

I understand that at a convention where a Tournament is as big an advertisement as a gaming event, it is important to have everyone on the field looking their best. A minimum painting standard could achieve that.  I believe that Topkicks suggestion of a Sports and Painting prize would gain more ground and promote the game in the community better by having three winnners(1st, sports, Painting) rather than just a topprize/cummulative winner.  A game survives on its fans, fans that are happy with events/decisions spread word a lot fasterthan disguntled fans.  Theirs a saying in marketing that " one bad customer is worth ten good ones,"
If a player "wins" they talk about it alot and possibly tempt people to play/check it out. but if a Player "loses" they will also talk about it and that will deter others from playing.  A player who feels "cheated" that they had a great winning record, but lost due to painting/sports could possibly become a "bad" customer

I am not saying that most gamers will wine and complain, but some may.


Please dont think i am attacking anyones point of view, but this is mine.
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Offline Steel Rabbit

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Re: Excelsior painting standard for tournament play.
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2005, 09:18:17 AM »
My biggest fear is that the 1st place prize will be more valued than sportsmanship or painting and it'll lead to people who are out for blood and I just don't think that's part of gaming. Painting is debatable, I DO feel that there should be a minimum for painting (three colors, eyes painted, bases done) but I can concede that in certain tournaments the rule can be malleable (sp? College boy trying to be smart ::)). But I feel very strongly about sportsmanship. I think being a good sport and a fun opponent should be included in the score of wins, ties, losses. Heck, even those clicky-base games and CCGs have sportsmanship factored in and I've seen some bloodthirsty kids who would kill their best friend for a cool card or 'Mech, or wizards, etc.