Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Talaminiatures => General Discussions => Topic started by: Fallen on September 22, 2005, 07:14:32 PM
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Okay,
I have been playing GW games for some ten years now but over the past year or so work and sleep have taken up most of my time. Now that things are some what back to normal I want to jump back in to gaming with both feet to make up for lost time. I am either going to go back to GW and start new armies or I am going try EE games. I am leaning towards EE but I just need a little push and I have a few concerns about EE games:
1) Finding players in South West PA.
2) Future support and growth of Warzone and Chronopia.
3) Getting gaming friends to give EE a try.
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Okay,
I have been playing GW games for some ten years now but over the past year or so work and sleep have taken up most of my time. Now that things are some what back to normal I want to jump back in to gaming with both feet to make up for lost time. I am either going to go back to GW and start new armies or I am going try EE games. I am leaning towards EE but I just need a little push and I have a few concerns about EE games:
1) Finding players in South West PA.
2) Future support and growth of Warzone and Chronopia.
3) Getting gaming friends to give EE a try.
I left GW long ago when Warzone 1st ed came out but let me try to help. I heartily recommend Warzone and Chronopia. I think the factions and the storyline are cohesive and make sense whereas the GW products seem to go off on tangents to support whatever the current production team thinks is cool. Excelsior creates units that support and advance the storyline. The games are also much better balanced. Now on to your specific concerns
1) Finding players in South West PA.
- Hopefully our Player Locator will be put on this forum soon. It was a great tool for finding people in your area to play. The home of EE is in Philly and there are several players in the West PA/East OH area if I recall. Give a shout out and I'm sure someone will answer the call. If nothing else I'll meet you in Columbus, OH and play - We'll have to take a break for Italian food and cheesecake though. ;D Napoli Villa is a major Midwest Crusader hangout during Origins
2) Future support and growth of Warzone and Chronopia.
- Excelsior has had problems but I and everyone else here has stuck with them thru some hard times. That, in my opinion speaks volumes about the support of the games and their growth potential. Some people will tell you Excelsior can't cut it but I know the people and work as a Crusader (Excelsior version of an Outrider) and I truly believe that these are the greatest games on the market.
3) Getting gaming friends to give EE a try.
- Getting them to try the first game might be a tad difficult but once they try the game and see the alternate activation system in action they will love it and you'll be playing all the time. That is probably the thing people like best about the game. Coupled with the excellent storyline, and balanced units the alternate activation is the heart of a great gaming experience. If you get them to try it once, they will play.
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Not to mention you only need 20 or so models to play Warzone/Chronopia. And if you liked the grim settings of WFB and 40K you'll love the darkness of UWZ and Chronopia.
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Thanks for the help guys you have helped me decide.
Now I know that I am going to have to provide both forces for both games to get things started. What points size do you recommend for some one who is just starting out with both games. I have the rules books for both games and have been reviewing them to get an idea of the game systems and how they play. What force composition should I start with. For Chronopia I think I will start with Dwarfs and Firstborn and for Warzone Imperials and Dark Legion. One last thing can I use a 4x4 table for this size of games.
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If the other players are experienced mini gamers I'd say start in the 500 to 750 point range. For that you can get 1 or 2 grunt units, an elite choice and an individual and maybe have a few points left over to add in support. I'd say to get factions that have a fluff appeals to you. As for the table size - I have used 4x4 numerous times and have had good results with armies in the 750 to 1,000 point range. Start with some of the scenarios in the UWZ book - they will work for Chronopia also. You just need to change the storyline but the technical aspects are basically the same.
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A 4X4 table can work. Warzone games tend to be loaded with terrain. Something 40K players I drag into can't seem to get their minds around cause they are used to one hill and a small copse of trees apparently. They want wide open firing lanes and Warzone supports tactical movement of squads more. At least in my games. The dynamics of Warzone make it important to position troops and do covering advances and the like. Since it's a more refined IGOUGO you have to plan out advances. No mad rushes across the table cause your troopers can shrug off a hundred hits from an HMG-85.
Imperial come in two flavors with me. Wolf Packs and IDMF. You can pollenate between the two to some extent but I keep the savages out of my lists usually cause it just looks odd to me. The Imperial list I play is pretty basic Regulars, Blood Berets, Hurricane Walkers but very solid.
Dark Legion? Hmmm, I'd suggest starting with a Horde or Cultist list and then choose to build a Dark Apostle force later. Hope this helped a little.
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Southwest PA, huh? Down near Pittsburgh or are you closer to Grove City?
Myself and a handful of other Chronopia players live just a short way south of Erie (on Lake Erie of course).
Distance could make regular gaming a pain, but occassional meetings might work, and if we can travel down to play with you in your haunt, then we might be able to convert some gamers to your new cause.
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Anyone in NYC would be interested in getting together and play warzone/chronopia on a regular basis?
Philly is too far for me to go...
Sigh!
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There is a whole crew of guys from New Jersey that play regularly. I haven't seen their handles pop up yet but they might be sporting new ones. The Excelsior Crew and I assume the "Jersey Boys" ;) will be at Southern Exposure (check the calander). Drop by if you can and I'm sure you'll find some guys to match up with.
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Gotta get the player locater back!
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Gotta get the player locater back!
I agree but until we get it back we need to help people find each other as best we can. Maybe we can all ID our locations in our signatures or in our personal text
If anyone in the Midwest Region needs to find someone contact me and I will attempt to point you to the closest known player or venue. The Midwest Region is composed of Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky.
I can also offer limited help hooking up people in the US and Europe - at least I might know who they can contact anyway. :)
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Glad you are here Fallen. You will not regret the choice you have made. Not only do I believe the rules are better and a lot more clean than the GW stuff, but you will also not have to obtain a 2nd mortgage to get some playable armies!
I am also glad to see you are interested in the Dark Legion. Read the fluff and play whatever faction or factions you like. I play Algeroth and Ilian (I will be playing Demnogonis very soon also). The cool thing is, I also have enough minins to field a horde or a cultist army. The lists are very flexible and again the price is right.
Good luck and hang around the forums. You can get a lot of good info and advice!!
Spagg
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I would look at your financial situation....GW models/armies will cost sooooo much
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Don't be rediculous; $50 (US) is NOT too much for a single plastic model that you have to have to make your army list valid. And $35 for a squad of five is a bargain.
I work for the government.
I use $50 toilet lids all the time just to put things in perspective.
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ROTFLMAO
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I like how he compares GW to Toilet Lids.
only Sh*t passes through here"
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Banination for that comment! That comment would get you executed on some forums!
That said... ;D
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Ok, guys. To get you back on track: UWZ vs 40K
UWZ is about the little guys you can identify with. 40K is about the superhuman machines of destruction with psychotic and homicidal tendencies (also known as Space Marines)
In UWZ the terrain provides cover for your troops. In 40k the terrain is a stupid obstruction, the game would be so much better without it ;-)
In UWZ basic infantry weapons are BASIC weapons, support weapons are for SUPPORT. In 40k it is ok, if you roll dice only for the big guns. Guys with lasguns and other small arms are there only as ablative shield.
In UWZ you watch every move of your oponent with interest, as he is up to something, that's sure AND in five minutes it will be your time to do something. In 40k you can go watch TV on your oponents turn for half an hour, when you'll come back, half of your army will be dead, but you won't be surprised at all.
In UWZ you have to work hard to utilize the guys with pointy sticks properly (and the same goes for those with slugthrowers). In 40K all you have to do is CHARGE!
5:0 for UWZ ;-)
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That was very cool, I agree al the way Pietia!
Be Well
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Thanks for the help and all the replies, but I need some help on selling this to the guys I game with.
EE is unknown to them and getting them to try a new system other than GW is going to be difficult. What I am looking for is the difference between the two systems that makes EE games more fun or (funner) if you prefer than GW games.
I don't want to beat up on GW just because they are the big boy on the block, and trying to belittle someone or something never really gets you anywhere anyhow.
I have been following Chronopia and Warzone for years but only as a observer not as a player so I kind of know the fluff but am now just learning the games mechanics.
So I quess my question is why you guys prefer these two systems over other gaming systems, so I have an idea how to present it to the guys I game with.
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Alright, I'm not a GW player and never have been, Warzone is the first and only TTG I've ever played. But, I've stuck with it since 1st ed in 1995. What I'm saying is I don't know the GW system but I will try to reiterate some of the comments I've heard converts make on the old forums.
Warzone uses an alternating activation system, that means you move one squad and then I get an immediate opportunity to react with one of my squads. This makes for more engaging play because you have to watch your opponent at every step so you can plan your move.
Warzone uses double blind deployment. Which means you wont know whats downfield from your position at the start of play and neither will your opponent. Until they are activated units are represented by unit cards placed face down, so you have to think "Is that unit card over there a worthless grunt squad like the Freedom Brigade, or is it Something terrifying like a 3 man squad of Orca?" Some units have special abilitys such that their deployment card isn't turned over automatically when you activate them. Double blind deployment prompts strategic thinking on the part of the players and adds an additional dynamic to play.
Others who have more GW experiance can probably tell you more but these are the two things I hear most frequently used to extoll the virtues of EE over GW.
As for getting your friends to try it, if you buy the Pizza and beverages, supply the armies, and host the event at your place, who is going to turn you down? If you don't want to invest in buying armies until you know that your friends will play, which is understandable, see if you can use these forums to find a crusader in your area to come to your local gaming store and put on a demonstration, once they see Warzone in action I bet they'll come onboard.
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Honestly, it comes down to flavor. In some regards Warzone is a hard sell to some people. I've had hell trying to get people into it around Dallas/Ft. Worth. Comparing the two is a lot like comparing a Jonagold Apple to a Braebrun Apple.
40K has the monsterous support of GW which in undeniably the juggernaut of wargames.
The alternative activation is the truly big one. Honestly, you can react in a turn to a players reaction rather than wait for your entire force to be shot and charged before you can even think of a way to counter it. Warzone allows you more tactical flexibility during the game. It also keeps you at the table. Turn length is about the same between both games but you are constantly involved in Warzone rather than just waiting. Makes for a more dynamic game that is more raw-nerved to a degree.
The balance between combat. Perhaps Warzone favors shooting a little more but not to the extent 40K favors hand-to-hand combat. Hand-to-hand is the be all end all within 40K, 4th edition seems to have gone towards making shooting more equal but seems woefully inadequate still. Balance between shooting and hand-to-hand is more balanced. There is no charging of armored soldiers through a firing line in a seemingly suicidal fashion that has no casualties for receiving the volume of fire and mounting the fortification to chop the opponents to bits.