Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Warzone => Open Discussion => Topic started by: Archer on December 12, 2009, 05:42:44 AM
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Topic of Discussion:
If you could re-organize an Army faction, which would it be, how would you do it?
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I've noticed a lot of folks here have opinions on what each army as wrong and what they would do to organize them. I'm no different and I've played around with the org chart many times.... and I've also wondered if others have done the same.
The two armies I thought need organizing on the Corp side are Capitol and Bauhaus.... Cap more than the Haus....
What I'd do....
Capitol Armed Forces
Army Troop Choices:
Light Infantry
Airborne Infantry
Elites:
Free Marines (where they started)
Scorpions
Rangers
Martian Banshees
Individuals:
LI Captain
Airborne Captain (new unit)
Ranger Captain
FM Gunny
Banshee Captain
Infantry Major
Colonel
"La ****aroach" Del torres
Kowalski
Navy
Heavy Infantry (renamed Marine Infantry)
Elites
Sea Lion
Assault Marines
Colby Guard (argument can be made to make them Army)
Wailing Banshees
Individuals
HI Captain
Sea Lion Catain (armed prperly!!!)
AsM Captain
Nathan Parrish
Blood/Guts Colonel
Wailing Banshee Captain
Sgt Carter
General List Troop
Freedom Brigade (troops) The Foreign Legion of Capitol
K9 Teams (Elite) they are specialists in modern armies and its a return to such.
Sunset Strikers- (Elite) trhey really don't fit anywhere else
Armed Interdiction Police (AIP) Detachemtemt- (Elite) unit of MP's armed with pistol and smg or shotguns. Must take if any Freedom Brigade in army
General List Individuals
Covert Ops Spec
Jake Kramer
Support Elements
Infantry Mortar Teams
Orcas
Shark
Great Grey
Pegasus
Capitol Hero Doom trooper Team (Mitch and Bob Watts)
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Honestly I'm quite pleased with the layout there currently is in the Warzone unit lists so I only got slight changes.
For Capitol I had perhaps moved ACG to the Army to give the Sea Lions a more shining place.
For Imperial I had looked at the possibilities to mix the clans a bit more, but that is more the army chooser rule than anything else.
Bauhaus, probably changed the Vulcans and the mounted Hussars to pure support units.
When it comes to the rest of the armies I ain't got much of a opinion as I have never played or faced them in any larger extent.
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If I could redo an army I'd go back to 1st edition style. So many basic troops get you a limited # of specialists. You could use any troop types of an army together. No restrictions. Same with the DL. Points should be points.
Thanks,
John
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Forces with only elite choices could be fun. You could still require grunts in order to buy support units. That way elite forces would be possible but still restricted in what toys they have access to.
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Hey Coil. I agree. That's what I meant I just didn't make it very clear. Points should be points. The nice thing about 1st edition was the army creation flexibility. Especially considering how hard it can be to get figs now, flexibility would be a real asset
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I would re do Capitol, too.
But I won't change the Divisions I would change the weaponary or some stats.
Freedom Brigs and LI: They are nearly the same. Give one of them SMGs or Shotguns.
Parachuter: Most times close to the enemy. So SMGs would be nice.
Colbys Guard: Had Shotguns in 1st edition, which is the much better choice for a heavy enviroment (short LOS) squad.
Sea Lions. Should have MV4. They are lightly armored, why only MV3?
Desert Scorps: Why is this trooper equiped with SMGs? In Desert you have most time long LOS and they only have MV3. This one should have Assault Rifles.
Nearly whole Capitol has Assault Rifles and the Squad witch dont need another wepon gets the SMG. Argghh.
K9 Team: To expensive. Predator Senses is nearly usless for them, since only the spotting squad can attack the spottet model. Yeahh spot them and bite them with DAM 6.
Mortar Team: Mortars are generally to weak for a support.
Rangers: Same as for the Parachuters. Close to the enemy. Upgrate there cool Revolver!
Sunsets: Two wounds for the Flamer Specialist would be nice.
Ok, that were the most important things to make a perfect Capitol. But which army is perfekt?
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I would re do Capitol, too.
Ok, that were the most important things to make a perfect Capitol. But which army is perfekt?
None, and wishing is OK, but I think the forces arenīt too outbalanced.
On the whole they semm to work nicely....
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Yeah winning with an unperfect army makes more fun, too.
And the whole discusions and comparisions would not be there if the armies were perfect.
A few things in the compostition of Capitol troopers stats, abilities and weaponary seems just a little bit unlogical for me.
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It would be nice to swap out weapons etc for some squads (of course a points increase should occur). Someday if this would happen it would be neat. Of course I would have to do a lot of conversions.
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It would be nice to swap out weapons etc for some squads (of course a points increase should occur). Someday if this would happen it would be neat. Of course I would have to do a lot of conversions.
That reminds me at the first edition Pretorian Stalkers with Nazgaroth.
AAAAAAhhhhhhh!
Greeting to you Bagomba.
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A few things in the compostition of Capitol troopers stats, abilities and weaponary seems just a little bit unlogical for me.
The same with me, but I think we differ in which stats and in which way they could be modified ;D
Yep the Pretorian Szalker with the Nazgaroth was a real pain in the ass.....
But on the whole I think the adjustment with being able to change weapons for the models would go too far.
Yeah would be nice and the effect of surprise could add a bit of fun and gives way more tactical possibilities, but I would fear that it would also lead to overpowered heavily equipped figs.
And we had that already.
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Yeah winning with an unperfect army makes more fun, too.
And the whole discusions and comparisions would not be there if the armies were perfect.
A few things in the compostition of Capitol troopers stats, abilities and weaponary seems just a little bit unlogical for me.
I agree. *IF* it were up to me, there would be an adjusting done to the Capitol army along with some serious sense-making. Not up to me though. :)
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wells... theres always house rules options.... as in the game i'm playing right now uses immaculate furies in an algeroth army, since in the mutant chronicles books the furies are a creation of algeroth's technomancers...
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As far as Dark Legion goes I would rather be able to cross Apostles elites in a similiar way to Bauhaus. You may choose Elite choises from other Aopstles but they count as Support choises instead.
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This is a good idea for all armies!
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This is a good idea for all armies!
I wouldnīt say so for all of them.
Sure itīs nice to do that but remember Bauhaus has 4 Houses to cover which are not interchangeable.
If you do that with other arnies with only two factions the construction would be softened and in some cases might throw off balance in comparison to the others....
OK, imperial is an exception but other armies arenīt diminished in their choice of consuktants either...
And explicitly you micmellon should remember Bagombaīs golden rule: In the End the one with the support wins.....
So not everytime a good choice to throw in other elites instead if the original support....
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As far as Dark Legion goes I would rather be able to cross Apostles elites in a similiar way to Bauhaus. You may choose Elite choises from other Aopstles but they count as Support choises instead.
If I am not mistaken, that can, already, be done. That would be considered a "consultant." I'll check.
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Personally, I believe that Bauhaus is in need of a re-working, if only to no longer hear others' bemoaning the superiority of the force and its units. ;D
That said, there really is no "over-all" force that I believe is in need of re-working. Rather, it is my opinion that if one has a hard time with a given force, perhaps one should study the force to learn its strengths/weaknesses and exploit them.
:: now steps down from his soapbox ::
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I hope you are referring to the vulkan army of doom.
IMHO - Vulkans can be defeated- they are vuln to long ranged attacks and flamers. The problem is the in between distances with them. They are great at SR,MR (and LR). You have to engage and kill them at LR or greater, and/or PB/CC them with a risidual weapon (flamer).
This of course is in theory. In practice is hasn't been done.
I think another Bauhaus army with paradeploying flamers x 4 and snipers would give it a run for its money.
A Capital approach would be Orcas (w/ heavy flamer) and 2 squads sunset w flamer, sunset captain, somehow get a sniper in the army.
The result would be a blood fest.
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i gave Dave a run for it with a Cartel Force many moons ago.
I lost... Dave's good but my getting ****y did not help.
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I hope you are referring to the vulkan army of doom.
IMHO - Vulkans can be defeated- they are vuln to long ranged attacks and flamers. The problem is the in between distances with them. They are great at SR,MR (and LR). You have to engage and kill them at LR or greater, and/or PB/CC them with a risidual weapon (flamer).
This of course is in theory. In practice is hasn't been done.
I think another Bauhaus army with paradeploying flamers x 4 and snipers would give it a run for its money.
A Capital approach would be Orcas (w/ heavy flamer) and 2 squads sunset w flamer, sunset captain, somehow get a sniper in the army.
The result would be a blood fest.
Technically, LR doesn't help you other than it puts more stuff in the way. Vulkans can reach LR getting +1(x2). The reason you don't get to shoot at that range is that there is, usually, intervening terrain.
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its obvious the only answer to the vulkan army of doom is another vulkan army of doom. followed by a small nuke.
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Nuke 'em from orbit..It's the only way to be sure.
You are right LR does not necessarily help. Maybe environmental would help.
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As the game should never be played without copious amounts of terrain and some environmental rules, it is, truly, when it is an open field on a bright sunny day that Vulkans are at their best.
In one game I played, I had a squad of Vulkans in a subterranean game. At one point, they were holding an important passage intersection. PhillySniper sent his Soulslayers toward them. He failed his environmental roll - badly!
Suddenly, the entire intersection erupted with steam and smoke, effectively blinding my Vulkans. His Soulslayers made their saves - every last stinking one of them! The Vulkans fell to Soulslayers, even though they had superior firepower, night vision gear, and supporting troops.
As for the Vulkan Army of Doom, it is, to say the least, a nightmare of min/maxing, and is lacking in flavor and style. It is brute force, with just enough militia to field as many Vulkans as I can.
At last count, in a 1,000 PC battle, I could field 16 (yes, that's sixteen) of them. In a perfect world (clear LOS, 6-12"), that's 144 shots per turn, with, roughly, 70% of those hitting their targets. A quick calculation yields about 70 wounds in a turn. Most armies cannot, possibly, stand up to that. Hide, and get into CC with them. Reduce their LOS, hit them with flamers (radiant and residual) and hope that I roll poor dice.
The army no longer sees the battlefield. I merley threaten my opponents with the mere thought that I could bring it out... ;D
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As far as Dark Legion goes I would rather be able to cross Apostles elites in a similiar way to Bauhaus. You may choose Elite choises from other Aopstles but they count as Support choises instead.
If I am not mistaken, that can, already, be done. That would be considered a "consultant." I'll check.
As far as I know you can't. In the book, under Dark Apostle Forces the last line is "They may never field units from another Apostle."
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As far as Dark Legion goes I would rather be able to cross Apostles elites in a similiar way to Bauhaus. You may choose Elite choises from other Aopstles but they count as Support choises instead.
If I am not mistaken, that can, already, be done. That would be considered a "consultant." I'll check.
As far as I know you can't. In the book, under Dark Apostle Forces the last line is "They may never field units from another Apostle."
Thanks, Sean.
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I would love to see the mounted units get a reworking (maybe depowered a bit) so you can have larger units of them--
I've always loved the mix of mounted and high tech - a la WWI. The use of them as a fast attack CC force-- Lawrence of Arabia, Civl War Cav, etc.
Just personal pref.
D
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As far as Dark Legion goes I would rather be able to cross Apostles elites in a similiar way to Bauhaus. You may choose Elite choises from other Aopstles but they count as Support choises instead.
Maybe add an animosity rule where every turn the non-main apostle unit takes a leadership test and if they fail the rage against the nearest "friendly" unit; they couldn't stand the heckling and rivalry or something.
If I am not mistaken, that can, already, be done. That would be considered a "consultant." I'll check.
As far as I know you can't. In the book, under Dark Apostle Forces the last line is "They may never field units from another Apostle."