Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Warzone => Game Questions => Topic started by: chribu on January 13, 2006, 02:27:02 PM
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Hi, i've searched through all the forum (nearly) and didn't find this answer, so i'll open a new thread, although it's an old argument.
It's
1 grunt squad for 1 elite or individual
2 grunt squad for support
right?
So
2 grunt squad + 1 elite + 1 individual + 1 support - LEGAL
2 grunt squad + 2 elite + 1 support - LEGAL
2 grunt squad + 2 elite + 1 individual - LEGAL <<- corrected
2 grunt squad + 3 elite NOT LEGAL
right?
However, bauhaus says "Additionally troops may be selected from another duke elector's list but a squad taken in that manner will count as a support unit"
So
2 grunt squad + 2 elite + 1 elite from another duke elector - LEGAL?
If all above is true... it does not make much sense, it would be more logical if elite could count as support in any case, so 2 grunt + 3 elite LEGAL
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Your 3rd choice 2 grunt+2elite+1ind not legal is incorrect you may have 1 ind per grunt or elite squad. So you could have 2 grunt+2 elite+ 4 ind.
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ah, ok, i really hadn't looked into individuals yet (i was more interested in squads). I've now corrected it
So
2 grunt squad + 2 elite + 4 individuals + 1 support - LEGAL
2 grunt squad + 2 elite + 5 individuals + 1 support - NOT LEGAL
right?
but what about (for bauhaus)
2 grunt squad + 2 elite + 5 individuals + 1 elite from other duke, that count's as support
?
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2 grunt squad + 2 elite + 5 individuals + 1 elite from other duke, that count's as support
not legal.
the only individual that the support squad could qualify you for is an individual from the support squads force list. That would make the fifth individual a support choice and you only have enough grunts for one support option.
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As i stated above 1 ind per grunt or elite squad. So if you have 2 grunt and 2 elite you can only have 4 ind, and yes Bauhaus can take a squad from another duke as a support choice.
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Ok, thanks, got those.
But my real point was:
If I can have 2 grunts + 2 elite from my duke + 1 elite from other duke, wouldn't it make sense too to have 2 grunts + 3 elite from my duke?
Just pointing out that it feels strange not being able to downgrade the support squad space to a elite squad space.
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Un fortunently thats not the way it's set up. It's only available as stated above.
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Sorry chribu, it's just not that way.
-PFC joe
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Ok, not a problem, the important thing is that the rules are clear. I don't mind at all if they are not exactly as I might think better.
You know, I've come from a year of Doomtrooper where everyone has a different idea on how rules are and should be applied, even during tournaments, and that's why I left last month Doomtrooper and moved to Warzone.
Here things seem to be much more clear.
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Its defined by 3 simple ratios:
1 Grunt Squat : 1 Elite Squat
1 Grunt or Elite Squad: 1 individual
2 Grunt Squad :1 Support
If your army buying criteria states that you can purchase a different unit as a support option, then its type effectively changes to support for you.
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can I use individuals from other duke electors or just real "squads"?
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you can use individuals but they count as support and you have to have at least one other squad from the Support Duke to qualify you for the individual.
so yes, but it takes four grunt squads.
-PFC joe
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uhm so, if i choose an elite squad from another duke elector, i don't need to have a corresponding grunt squad, but if i choose an individual from another duke elector, i need to have an elite squad from that duke elector too, right?
although it gets me confused, i mean, the individual is now considered "support" instead of "individual"...
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Like Cartel and Tribes, the Support forces have to be legal force lists too. So for every Individual there must be at least one squad of the same force.
-PFC joe
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The confusion here, I think, is that the individual taken is, actually, a support choice. Therefore, there only needs to be two grunts to support it. Bauhaus is a rather confusing corporation when it comes to this.
The individual, if taken in a force that is it's own house, needs only a squad to qualify it. It can be a grunt or an elite squad, but can't be an elite that was taken as support (from a different Duke Elector). If the individual is taken as support, it is just that - support. As long as there are two grunts to qualify it, then the maodel may be taken. It does not require a further unit to qualify it.
Think of the individual as a mortar team or as another elite unit from a different Duke Elector.
Remember, Bauhaus make take any unit from a different Duke Elector as support. This is a special rule for Bauhaus, only.
Therefore:
- 2 Grunt Units + 2 Elite Units + a third Elite (from a different Duke Elector or any Duke Elector if it is a Homebuilder force) = Legal Force.
- 3 Grunts + 1 Elite + 1 Support (from Support List or any Unit from diff. D. E.) + 4 Indies = Legal Force
- 2 Grunts + 2 Elites + 1 Support + Unit from Diff. D. E. = Illegal Force.
However, if the individual in question is "squad linked," then[/b] it must[/b] have the corresponding elite unit attached to be onboard. If the unit is taken as support, there would, then, need to be four grunts to qualify them both.
Ex.: A Richthausen Force wishes to bring Jungle Kommandos and their Kaptain. There would need to be 4 Homebuilder grunts to make this force legal.
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Like Cartel and Tribes, the Support forces have to be legal force lists too. So for every Individual there must be at least one squad of the same force.
-PFC joe
Why? I do not need a "house" grunt (I know - there aren't any for Bauhaus) to take an Elite unit in that same support slot.
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Dave I have to disagree with you in the rules it states you may take a squad not a unit and I believe you cant take an Ind model under Bauhaus's special support choice it has to be a squad otherwise the rules would say unit or Ind.
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Earlier in the rules (w/o Book at the moment) it says that squad and unit are interchangeable, and "unit" includes individuals
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I always regarded that as a progression from a general term to a specific term. Unit being a general term for any model placed on the gaming table and squad, individual or support, being specific terms. Therefore anywhere the rules use the term Unit, the general term it applies to each specific iteration, but when the specific term is used in a ruling it cannot be applied to the more general catagory. Which is why I always assumed the Bauhaus ruling applied specifcally to squads and not to units. So there's my two cents on the terminology issue.
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it does seem to make more sense that you would have to take a squad...I envision Individuals as exceptional officers or leaders specific to the squads they lead (the Assault Marine Captain, for example)...because of this, I would think that Bauhaus would have to take a squad of a type before an individual, just like any other force in the game. It is because of this interpretation that, I believe, one cannot take a Meka of one type and a Shadow Walker of another, as an example.
Even though, as looking through the Bauhaus list, I don't believe that they get an extreme advantage by taking an individual without a squad as a support choice, I personally think that they should have to be in line with the other armies.
B.
I think that made sense...
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If the individual is taken as support, it is just that - support. As long as there are two grunts to qualify it, then the maodel may be taken. It does not require a further unit to qualify it.
you can use individuals but they count as support and you have to have at least one other squad from the Support Duke to qualify you for the individual.
so yes, but it takes four grunt squads.
-PFC joe
Has this been cleared?
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I do not believe that this has, yet, been clarified. I ask that this be moved to UWZ FAQ.