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Warzone => Open Discussion => Topic started by: Iron Panda on December 19, 2005, 05:54:03 PM

Title: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Iron Panda on December 19, 2005, 05:54:03 PM
I'm interested in playing Warzone but currently have my hands full with Chronopia. 
I'd like to start Warzone one day but in the meantime, I figure doing some homework would help a bit when the time comes.  That said, can anyone would be so kind to provide any info on DL playing styles, especially Semai and Muawijhe?  By the look of things, they could be shooty as well as close combat oriented.   I'm thinking more of both to balance things out but how does it work out within the frame work of said factions or any factions for that matter?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Sylvas on December 19, 2005, 06:31:56 PM
Muawijhe is a fun army to play, if you use Acolytes...the Acolytes provide a strong, shooty force to lay down fire until you can get the Zenithian Soulslayers and Carnophages in close to do that voodoo that they do so well...

the other one that is fun is Ilian...that force has a good troop choice (Templars), and a real nasty special character (Karak the Keeper)...

B.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Spagg on December 19, 2005, 06:35:01 PM
I play both Algeroth and Ilian. I find both of these forces pretty flexible. I can play shooty or close combat, depending on what kind of mood I am in!. The force lists are extremely flexible because you can choose horde or cults (only 1...not both at the same time!) with whichever apostle you choose to follow.

My advice is to read the fluff, check out the models and choose the force that appeals to you in this way. You can pretty much shape it into an army to your liking if you do this!

Good luck and have fun. Pm me if I can help!
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PFC joe on December 19, 2005, 06:52:16 PM
Most apostles have a mix of Shooty and CCey troops. 

Of those Ilian is probably most suited as the ones that don't have Deadshot (which allows you to shoot into CC with no penalty) have a nasty group combination attack. 
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Iron Panda on December 20, 2005, 07:10:46 AM
Thanks for the replies!

I was thinking of a Muawijhe force comprised of Acolytes or Initiates from the cult list backed by Karnophages, Furies, and Zenithians.  A balanced list of long and medium range firepower and CC goodness.   Another fun list I was thinking is a Semai one.  With infiltrators backed by some cult firepower, such a list could be a fun army to play.  Any thoughts? 

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on December 20, 2005, 07:32:04 AM
oooooo.... Dark Legion'll be a fun addition to the campaign :)
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Iron Panda on December 20, 2005, 08:10:04 AM
Quote
oooooo.... Dark Legion'll be a fun addition to the campaign

That's what I'm thinking!  Everyone's playing the "good" guys with white or grey hats, that it would be cool to add a villain into the mix.  Not to mention, DL are sorely misrepresented in our area.  Sadly,  this idea might not see the light of day as I have too much Chronopia stuff to paint.

Oh well,  I'll give it a shot.  Warzone's too cool to miss.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on December 20, 2005, 08:14:22 AM
That's ok. As you can tell from my Capitol, none of it is painted. :)  I'm sure me and Masherking'll be ok with you throwing some metal-colored acolytes at us.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: masherking on December 20, 2005, 08:29:26 AM
Dark legion would be seriously kool.
Dont think you limited to playing evil. Pick what ever you'll have the most fun with.
I mean look at Jibba's army. The mans playing CORBA!!

Dark legion would be seriously kool.

and like jibba said dont worry about painting. We all have lives outside the store and time is limited for everyone. Please play, have fun, paint along the way 8)

-steve
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on December 20, 2005, 09:39:13 AM
All I know is that I'll need my army painted by Dreamation.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: masherking on December 20, 2005, 09:45:00 AM
thank goodness CORBA has a easy color scheme  ;D
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on December 20, 2005, 09:58:08 AM
True :)

They'll have to be my army if I go to a VOID tourny. :p
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Anubis31 on December 20, 2005, 10:46:08 AM
Well look forward to seeing the snakes at the tourney and dreamation. The sons of rasputin will exact some good ol fasion earth a$$ kicking.

like opening and old post nuke twinkie.....
or can of whop-a$$
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: masherking on December 20, 2005, 11:22:59 AM
Now you done it Jibba.
Even Anubis is talking smack to you.


-steve
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on December 20, 2005, 12:02:27 PM
COBRA does not run away!!

They just strategically re-deploy. :)
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Anubis31 on December 20, 2005, 01:13:32 PM
They just strategically re-deploy into there graves......

muah-ha-ha-ack-cough-cough-ha!!!!
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: masherking on December 20, 2005, 01:15:56 PM
LOL

they all be " Deader then Disco".

the all time best cobra commander quote.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 20, 2005, 09:46:49 PM
Thanks for the replies!

I was thinking of a Muawijhe force comprised of Acolytes or Initiates from the cult list backed by Karnophages, Furies, and Zenithians.  A balanced list of long and medium range firepower and CC goodness.   Another fun list I was thinking is a Semai one.  With infiltrators backed by some cult firepower, such a list could be a fun army to play.  Any thoughts? 

Thanks again!

I am a new DL player myself< 2 games under my belt>  My DL force is as follows:

2 squads of Initiates
1 squad of Destroyers
1 squad of Immaculate furies
1 Immaculate Imperceptor
1 Supreme Necromagus w/ Razide support
2 Angels of Mercy
1 Reaper

This unit faired decently against a Bauhaus "shooty" army of Vulcans and Victors <mainly>. As it was my first game I learned alot.  This unit also fought an imperial army and faired much better. Very well balanced with CC and RC troops. Being a former Bauhaus player <actually I still am they just are in reserve> It was a different experience but loads of fun!!! Thanks dmcgee1 !!!!!
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PFC joe on December 20, 2005, 09:50:14 PM
>cough<  hey philly sniper, you need an Apostle Grunt squad for that Apostle Elite squad to make that a legal force.

You'd also need three Apostle squads to get the three Apostle individuals. 

i do love the Angels of Mercy though.  They can really mess with defenses.

-PFC joe
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Iron Panda on December 21, 2005, 07:26:33 AM
Philly,

Thanks for the sample list.  I'm getting a brief overview of what Muawijhe is all about.  How come there's no Karnophages?  They seem fun to field.  As for the Angel of Mercy and Reaper of Souls, how do you use them?
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 21, 2005, 08:08:04 AM
>cough<  hey philly sniper, you need an Apostle Grunt squad for that Apostle Elite squad to make that a legal force.

You'd also need three Apostle squads to get the three Apostle individuals. 

i do love the Angels of Mercy though.  They can really mess with defenses.

-PFC joe
WHich Apostle Elite squad would that be? The Destroyers?  They are cult and can be brought freely. The Furies are Muawijhe and as that is the base of the Army as long as there are grunt squads they are legal. I believe that is a legal force as is: 2 grunt squads, 2 elite squads, 1 support unit and 3 Indivs. AM I correct? If not please explain.. Thanks
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 21, 2005, 08:13:55 AM
Philly,

Thanks for the sample list.  I'm getting a brief overview of what Muawijhe is all about.  How come there's no Karnophages?  They seem fun to field.  As for the Angel of Mercy and Reaper of Souls, how do you use them?

Ther are no Karnos because I dont have enough<yet> to field a force. As far as the AOM and the Reaper, The cards stay on the board until either  1. It is spotted < which cant be done until an enemy unit is with their leadership minus 6> 2. You decide to reveal the unit or 3. You attempt to charge. They are very nasty if used properly and with some fire support. I used them the first time on their own and they got slaughtered but the second time I had a little fires support < initiates, Furies etc> and they got in range to cause some havok. Id have to say that you must support! support! support! them or they are high priced, multi-wound meat-shields. IMHO
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PFC joe on December 21, 2005, 09:21:18 AM
Apostle and Cult/Horde lists are seperate and have to fullfill their own force list requirements.  There is no communal grunt and Elite pool.

so you have

2 Cult Grunt squads
1 Cult Elite
1 Cult support unit (the Supreme Necromagus is a Support choice)
1 General support (Reaper)

and seperately you have

1 Apostle Elite
3 Apostle Individuals.

-PFC joe
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 21, 2005, 08:45:12 PM
Apostle and Cult/Horde lists are seperate and have to fullfill their own force list requirements.  There is no communal grunt and Elite pool.

so you have

2 Cult Grunt squads
1 Cult Elite
1 Cult support unit (the Supreme Necromagus is a Support choice)
1 General support (Reaper)

and seperately you have

1 Apostle Elite
3 Apostle Individuals.

-PFC joe

Hmmm I have to admit that was the way I thought as well in the beginning. But in the book  it says " Players wishing to field a force from one of the Drk Apostles may select from their Apostles list and the common support list. They may aslo select from either the Cult list or the Horde list, but not both. They may never field units from another Apostle."

It also says that The DL doesnt use consultants or advisors which I think is the rule that you are alluding to.

From reading other Corps instructions I get the impression that they tell you when/with whom you can use advisors/ consultants.

Again please correct me if I am misinformed, but that is the take I got.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Stalker on December 21, 2005, 10:48:40 PM
I understand this the same as Joe.  There was much discussion of this on the old forum and it was decided that each list must be able to stand alone but, your are able to bring both an apostle force and either a horde or a cult force.

So, to bring Immaculate Furies, one would be required to field Karnophages or Screaming Mimis for example.  Acolytes and Initiates would not work to provide the Furies.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 22, 2005, 06:04:01 AM
I understand this the same as Joe.  There was much discussion of this on the old forum and it was decided that each list must be able to stand alone but, your are able to bring both an apostle force and either a horde or a cult force.

So, to bring Immaculate Furies, one would be required to field Karnophages or Screaming Mimis for example.  Acolytes and Initiates would not work to provide the Furies.

I would agree with that but if you look at Imperial or Bauhaus, it states who you can and can not take as CONSULTANTS/ADVISORS. DL specifically states that you cannot use C/A but allows you to choose from Cult or Horde.

Going by your way of thinking how is that possible?
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Dragon62 on December 22, 2005, 07:15:27 AM
Bryon also under Mishiman they can use general grunts or monks under the lord heirs. Thats why there are House Rules in EE and Tourney events rule book is law. At home or a local shop gaming with friends the book is a guide line and anyway you want to set up your forces can be agreed upon with the person your playing with. I personal have had games where your force above would have been fine. Phil
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PFC joe on December 22, 2005, 08:42:43 AM
  I was corrected by Thom on this exact topic ages ago.    For Dark Legion the Horde/Cult lists are seperate from the Apostle lists.  to qualify for Horde Elites you have to have Horde Grunts and to get Apostle Elites you have to get an  Apostle grunts.
Further,  the grunts for a support unit have to be provided by either the Cult/Horde OR the Apostle, you can't mix and match.

As for the other consultants.  Unless specifically restricted, all Corps can take Tribes and or Cartel for their C/A's.  (and maybe Brotherhood as well, Thom hasn't gotten back to me on that one.)

The Majority of the Corps are broken down into common Grunts with house/army/Lord specific Grunts.  The DL provides the indiviiduall apostle grunts.

-PFC joe
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 22, 2005, 09:44:35 AM
  I was corrected by Thom on this exact topic ages ago.    For Dark Legion the Horde/Cult lists are seperate from the Apostle lists.  to qualify for Horde Elites you have to have Horde Grunts and to get Apostle Elites you have to get an  Apostle grunts.
Further,  the grunts for a support unit have to be provided by either the Cult/Horde OR the Apostle, you can't mix and match.

As for the other consultants.  Unless specifically restricted, all Corps can take Tribes and or Cartel for their C/A's.  (and maybe Brotherhood as well, Thom hasn't gotten back to me on that one.)

The Majority of the Corps are broken down into common Grunts with house/army/Lord specific Grunts.  The DL provides the indiviiduall apostle grunts.

-PFC joe

Joe,

I understand how the houses are broken down. Im not debating that point at all. The rule you are quoting tho seems to be the rule for C/A's which doesnt apply here. The rules for building specifically states that DL can chose from cult or horde as part of their force. It doesnt state any other qualifications than that.

I know it may seem that Im being argumentative about this but when being told that "house rules" are ok when agreed upon, I take offense because this isnt a "house rule", Im using the UWZ book to build my force and the rules that are included.

None of the units Im fielding are "support" so I dont need to follow the 2 grunt from that house rule. I dont see where the confusion is coming from. I can understand if the rules are unclear where there would be or could be debate but when the rules are written in the Rulebook, I dont see the need for clarification.

As far as the Horde and Cult lists being seperate, this gives you the ability to play all theses forces exclusively. But the rules specifically state that you can take Cult or Horde with any Apostle just as  with Imperial any Clan can take IDMF, Mishima The Lords can field from the Overlords Retinue, Brotherhood can take from First Directorate and/or The Dedicated Etc. I reallly dont see how this is different for the DL.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PFC joe on December 22, 2005, 09:55:10 AM
You're going to have to trust me on this.  I thought that the grunts were communal between apostles and cults/hordes as well, Thom himself told me otherwise.   Each force is completly seperate and has to be legal within it's own rights.  The DL just works a bit differently from the Corps.

(the Supreme Necromagus is a support unit.  The vanilla regular Necromagus is an Individual.)

-PFC joe
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 22, 2005, 02:56:53 PM
You're going to have to trust me on this.  I thought that the grunts were communal between apostles and cults/hordes as well, Thom himself told me otherwise.   Each force is completly seperate and has to be legal within it's own rights.  The DL just works a bit differently from the Corps.

(the Supreme Necromagus is a support unit.  The vanilla regular Necromagus is an Individual.)

-PFC joe

Ok Based on your logic, I couldnt ever field a Bauhaus Duke elector force because they dont have their "own" Grunts to use. They HAVE to use the Homebuilders grunts. Also the rules for Bauhaus specifically state that you CAN  select from another Duke Elector forces but they count as support. DL does not state this.
If what you say is correct, then the rules arent what are written, They are what established players have determined them to be. IMO thats not right. I take the rules as they are written.  Afterall that is the point of a rule book. If I was a brand new player and you told me that my force wasnt legal, I would want a better explaination than "You're going to have to trust me on this".

I know how this sounds and I apologize but I am a little POed right now.

I mean this isnt about clearing up a point, this is a MAJOR change in force building criteria.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Stalker on December 22, 2005, 06:56:44 PM
At the risk of stepping into the fire, let me try to clarify.  What Joe is telling you is not what has been determined by established players.  Established players, at first, interpretted the wording in the book just as you have and where using horde/cult grunts to bring Apostle elites.  It was Thom himself who said that this was not correct.  So it is Thom's interpretation that states the horde/cult and Apostle lists need to be able to stand alone even when played in the same force list.

Your analogy about never being able to play a Bauhaus Duke for lack of grunt options would be correct if the corps and the DL followed the same structure.  But, as Joe previously stated, they have different criterias.  This was determined by Thom and that is why Joe said that you just have to trust him.  Joe, as part of the FAQ team, is just acting as a conduit from Thom
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PwrSERGE on December 22, 2005, 08:11:08 PM
This is one of those things that deffinately needs to go in the FAQ ASAP. After all, I don't think that this discussion is unique.

SERGE
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Topkick on December 23, 2005, 01:50:04 AM
This topic has shown up every so often since UWZ was released. Everytime someone points out the different buying criteria intrpretations for the DL and people object and start out questioning each other's interpretation and quickly move into insulting each other. We're getting dangerously close to crossing that line. Any chance you all can take a deep breath and back off?
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Coil on December 23, 2005, 03:05:22 AM
This topic has shown up every so often since UWZ was released. Everytime someone points out the different buying criteria intrpretations for the DL and people object and start out questioning each other's interpretation and quickly move into insulting each other. We're getting dangerously close to crossing that line. Any chance you all can take a deep breath and back off?
This is very good advice from Topkick here. I suggest you all let matters rest for a while before this turns ugly and I have to start locking threads down and punishing people.

/Andreas
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: Ruther on December 23, 2005, 05:45:12 AM
Since every Apostl has its own Grunt Units its pretty obvious how the rulling is going. Big contradiction to the forcestruckture of say Bauhaus where the Homebuilders are the Gruntchoices and every Duke has its own elites to build up his Force.

The Apostels wouldnt need "Grunt" Units if it wasnt intendet that they build their own forces the normal way (Grunt keeps up elites etc.). Gamebalance wise its the right choice as well as its obviously wasnt intended to combine the  strengths of two amylists (ie the solid Cult grunts getting backed up by the heavy Elite Apostel Units). I thought every one would clearly see it when looking unbiased at the Gamemechanics and that its not intended to be able to build the "uber" forces but building nice and balanced Forces for challengeing games) :).

Dont mind my crappy english grammar, but germans write that way ;D

PS. This excludes the Vulcan/Victor army of Death wich is cleary an offence towards the gamebalance  /me hides  :-*
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 23, 2005, 07:19:47 AM
Since every Apostl has its own Grunt Units its pretty obvious how the rulling is going. Big contradiction to the forcestruckture of say Bauhaus where the Homebuilders are the Gruntchoices and every Duke has its own elites to build up his Force.


That I can relate to and wouldnt and dont have a problem with if thats the way its ruled.
I do want to point out that it states in the building criteria for DL that you can choose from Cult or Horde but not both. I do not understand the reasoning for that if you cant choose from those lists.

I do apologise for my wording and tone with my previous posts.  There is no justification for antagonism on the threads. EE has done a great job with the site and the game. I apologise to anyone I offended and personally to PFC Joe, you were only trying to help.
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PFC joe on December 23, 2005, 11:59:18 AM
hey no worries. It was my fault, I didn't explain clearly enough.

(honestly, it was a surprise to me too)

If ya want to know how to make a killer Horde/Algeroth force give me a PM

-PFC joe
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: dmcgee1 on December 23, 2005, 02:33:31 PM
Since every Apostl has its own Grunt Units its pretty obvious how the rulling is going. Big contradiction to the forcestruckture of say Bauhaus where the Homebuilders are the Gruntchoices and every Duke has its own elites to build up his Force.

The Apostels wouldnt need "Grunt" Units if it wasnt intendet that they build their own forces the normal way (Grunt keeps up elites etc.). Gamebalance wise its the right choice as well as its obviously wasnt intended to combine the  strengths of two amylists (ie the solid Cult grunts getting backed up by the heavy Elite Apostel Units). I thought every one would clearly see it when looking unbiased at the Gamemechanics and that its not intended to be able to build the "uber" forces but building nice and balanced Forces for challengeing games) :).

Dont mind my crappy english grammar, but germans write that way ;D

PS. This excludes the Vulcan/Victor army of Death wich is cleary an offence towards the gamebalance  /me hides  :-*

I saw that! ;)
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PhillySniper on December 24, 2005, 03:51:21 AM
Ok Just to check.. Would thse be a legal forces?

Force 1

1 Squad of Karnophages
1 Squad of Immaculate Furies
1 Angel of Mercy
1 Squad of Alcolytes <cult>
1 Squad of Initiates <cult>
1 Squad of Destroyers <cult>
1 Supreme Necro w/ Razide <cult>
1 Reaper of Souls <cult>


Force 2
4 squads of Karnos
3 Angels Of Mercy
1 Neph of Muawijhe
1 Ezoghoul


Just need to know so I know what I need to buy to field a force for the Dexcon.


Thx
Philly
Title: Re: Warzone newbie taking an interest in the Dark Legion
Post by: PFC joe on December 24, 2005, 05:12:55 AM
yes and yes