Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Talaminiatures => General Discussions => Topic started by: Veez on March 10, 2008, 08:42:38 AM
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It has now been roughly two years (give or take) since Paradox pulled the rug out from under us (time has demonstrated what a lucrative move that has been financially).
In the past two years there has not been a movie released, despite it being in pre- and post-production during this time. There has not been an RPG released despite talk of how great it has re-envisioned the Mutant Chronicles universe. There has not been a Collectable Miniatures Game released; that market seems to be a fad that has come and gone (let’s face it-we geeks like to paint) if the demise of pre-painted Starship Troopers and Battlefield Evolution, and the decline of clicky figs in general, are any example.
Where are we now, as opposed to a year ago, and where are we going still?
Last year’s Achievements:
1) Figures. Figure availability was beginning to dwindle as friendly local gaming sores sold out. This trend has continued (if not accelerated). On-line sources are hit and miss as they too sell out. There still seems to be a decent amount of stock out there but items that were limited to begin with are non-existant. Proxies and conversions seem to be the way to go on these. Trading has had good results between forum members.
2) Conventions. Talamania I was a success and members continue to wave the flag at other conventions (namely Archer and Topkick-if there are others that I am forgetting I salute you and offer my apologies). Overseas there seems to be a strong presence as well (and I salute you as well). Way to fight the long fight gang.
3) Unity of Command. There was concern that this would be a problem but there does not seem to be any major schisms or cliques within the player groups (although you could say that our forum is one big clique-welcome aboard).
4) Spam. The switch to the new forum seems to have completely eliminated this so I want to thank our administrators (in no special order): T-Prime, Coil, joshuaslater, Wedge, Topkick, Anubis31 and Lancelot (whose status is a bit unclear right now).
Things to look forward to:
Talamania II is in the near future and I know a lot of you who can are looking forward to attending. T-Prime (his busy schedule permitting) may be releasing PDFs of the unpublished material. I think we are all looking forward to that. The forum itself is much busier these days than it used to be; and better yet, none of the new members are trying to link us to porn sites.
All in all, I think we are actually better off now than this time last year. Please share your thoughts on the matter.
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Hear Hear!
Nicely stated Veez.
I am looking forward to Talamainia II, and actually meeting the people that I have been inter-acting with for so many years.
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This is a well thought out analysis of the state of the 2 games. I agree with much of what you said Veez and I too feel that in general, we as a group are better off. We have trimmed the fat (the nay-sayers, trolls and flamers) from the forum. We have eliminated all the spam. FFG's version of the game did flop (it was show-cased at GenCon Indy 2007 - I have a few pics of it - but I don't think it was ever released) However, better is a relative term. All those things I feel work in our favor but if they are truely good things or not depends on what our ultimate goal is. If we are looking to have a nice tight-knit, friendly community then we are well on the right track. If we want our games to grow and thrive enabling us to have new sculpts, expansions, and the ability to find opponents in any town you happen to venture, then perhaps we still need to stay vigilent. Neither way is right or wrong, just a choice.
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Veez, well spoken. I agree with everything said.
Stalker, I agree with you, as well.
In all, I think that this community is unique in that we not only show respect to the Admins and gratefulness to Thom for keeping our forums alive and our hopes alive for new content, but we respect each other - a lot. Obviuosly, many of us know of other forums where trolls, flamers, and whatnot are allowed free reign to do what they do. Here, we tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt, and try to find common ground. When we can't find that ground, we tend to abide by "game and let game."
Veez, you made some other comments, especially towards our group being good traders. I would say that, on some occassions, we go beyond good to downright awesome. I know that I have, personally, dipped into my stocks to provide someone with a long-sought, nigh impossible to find figure. I know that others have done similar things. I constantly see awesome feedback on Uncle Thom's trading post, and have yet to see, personally, anyone warn anyone else that so-and-so is not a good trader.
I happen to be fortunate enough to live in a high-UWZ-activity area. I can find a game on any given day, and two or more on the weekends. Further, there are three or more cons a year where I can get together with 10 or more to play tournies. Obviously, the smaller gaming groups play no less a part in keeping our game alive. The European players may play the game a bit differently, but none can contest their devotion and zeal for the game. I only wish that I could get over there to experience it personally.
Can we, as players and devotees of the game do more to ensure that this game is around for a long time? That's a tough question. Most of us feel that just by being here and promoting the camaraderie and fun we have being players of the game is the best that we can do. Others believe that we can influence the future of the game. Still others call for more. My opinion is that as long as we play the game, treat each other with the same level of respect and friendship with which we, ourselves, would like to be treated, then this community will carry the game with it.
Many new forum members have continued to add to our ranks, and have felt welcomed to the point that they are adding content to the forum, and adding ideas, suggestions, scenarios, battle reports and advice. To see new members is amazing. To see the caliber of members that we seem to be attracting is no less so. The fact that we are all playing a game that has seen little support (not a derogatory comment) speaks to not only the game, but to the community as a whole. The outward image that we present from here must be good, otherwise, this entire system would whither.
There is one theme that contiues to emerge from this forum - unity. We are all working toward the same goal, and we all believe that we can see that this game will survive, eventually prosper and continue to bring enjoyment to us. As far as I see it, the state of this union is as it has been - united.
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FFG's version of the game did flop (it was show-cased at GenCon Indy 2007 - I have a few pics of it - but I don't think it was ever released)
It appears that the game is still in the works, albeit delayed. Just checked FFG website and game now has own section of the website. See the following link for details:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/mutant-chronicles/
I must say, I'm unimpressed to say the least.
SP
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Yeah, the FFG Mutant Chronicles seems more than just a bit underwhelming. 54mm and the studio paintjobs look okay but still a bit dodgy since these are loads better than the production pieces will be. The pricepoint is also pretty high I hear so the game does have quite a few factors against it.
1. Massive scale miniatures- It's fairly easy to assume most long time Warzone gamers will skip the game rather than replace their existing armies with bendy plastic miniatures in random packs and build all now terrain to match the 54mm minis.
2. History- Warzone has been killed and raised from the dead multiple times now. Whatever faith may have been building with Excelsior and Ultimate Warzone hit the floor when Paradox pulled the license and killed the game again. I don't think retailers will be gangbusters to get the Warzone or Mutant Chronicles property in stock again. There's also the fact that the retailers are probably still staring at Mongoose's Battlefield Evolution prepaints that are collecting dust at 75% off. That demographic for prepaints (that prepaint companies say is seperate to grognard wargamer crusty bastiches that paint figures) is more in line for cheap and easy games and are pretty much flash in the pan and play for awhile and move on to the next pretty shiny.
3. The movie- Well, FFG was hoping to have a movie to support the game. Hell, I'd wager Thom was hoping for the movie to help prop up Excelsior with some easy market saturation but it's not happening. Never mind that the film looks Sci-Fi Channel Movie of the Week quality anyway. Fact is, you've got a movie in pre-post-something-production hell.
The again, I might just be ****y still about Paradox pulling the license. I feel Paradox thought it would get the big big money with a trendy game backed by a less than stellar movie. I can't help but hope Paradox is choking on it.
Sorry, I'm a naughty boy.
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If there's any justice in the world I hope they are.
Incidentally if anyone is interested I've been working on a novel for Mutant Chronicles, the real world has slowed my typing time a lot but have about a third of it done if anyone thinks I should stick a bit of it up here then let me know.
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OOOOhhhhhh I mentioned this on TMP, but the 54mm would be good to cherry pick for a fig or to to repaint as statues. ;D
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Since I never played Warzone, I have no issues with the Mutant Chronicles 54mm line as I have been interested in that scale for some time now, I just never got into it.
The release is "April 2008" but yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath. They seem to keep delaying for the film, but I am not impressed with the speed of it's release. Then again D-Wars was 5 years in production, and turned out great, so we'll see.
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FFG's version of the game did flop (it was show-cased at GenCon Indy 2007 - I have a few pics of it - but I don't think it was ever released)
It appears that the game is still in the works, albeit delayed. Just checked FFG website and game now has own section of the website. See the following link for details:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/mutant-chronicles/
I must say, I'm unimpressed to say the least.
SP
heh
Someone should have told FFG that there is a special place in hell for those who try to vulture murdered men and game companies....Oh wait I did. Burn baby burn ;D
As for Paradox........this is a family forum and I have reformed myself so I will stop at heh...heh...heh ;D
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but the market law: if something does not sell, reduce the price -> the licence may get cheaper in the end.
may be some years though...
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Probably beating a dead horse, but is there any reason not to just re-release the UWZ rules, and take out all mention of Mutant Chronicles?
The fluff would have to be cut and probably minimized to virtually nothing, and names changed. However, the core rules system is still one of the best out there.
Possible that I am just throwing out random concepts on a sleepless night. If so, please tell me to go back to sleep!
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Probably beating a dead horse, but is there any reason not to just re-release the UWZ rules, and take out all mention of Mutant Chronicles?
The fluff would have to be cut and probably minimized to virtually nothing, and names changed. However, the core rules system is still one of the best out there.
Possible that I am just throwing out random concepts on a sleepless night. If so, please tell me to go back to sleep!
Go back to sleep.
SP
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I agree that the UWZ system itself could be used to build a new game with a new IP and new figures but the drawbacks of trying to compete in the market makes me cringe. I don't know how much I'd like the game removed from the IP, you know? It'd have to have some truly awe inspiring models and background to get me going again. As is I play an occasional game of UWZ but mostly have settled into using Astounding Tales! 2nd edition with varying tweaks and having a menagerie of figures from all different companies on the table.
The idea of cooking up a new game with the solid UWZ system does appeal, though.
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The idea of cooking up a new game with the solid UWZ system does appeal, though.
That it does. I've worked over some 40k figs into UWZ stats and from what I experienced and others have, the 40k conversions to UWZ rules rocked for players. With a team of people cooking up the rules for various lines and someone to write the necesary fluff alteration to not only use the existing figs but anything else, it's not hard at all to re-release the rules and some variant forcelists.
If I was a better writing fluff, I'd do it. I already have a bunch of ideas in my head that would possibly work. Perhaps I'll write them out. *shrug*
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The idea of cooking up a new game with the solid UWZ system does appeal, though.
That it does. I've worked over some 40k figs into UWZ stats and from what I experienced and others have, the 40k conversions to UWZ rules rocked for players. With a team of people cooking up the rules for various lines and someone to write the necesary fluff alteration to not only use the existing figs but anything else, it's not hard at all to re-release the rules and some variant forcelists.
If I was a better writing fluff, I'd do it. I already have a bunch of ideas in my head that would possibly work. Perhaps I'll write them out. *shrug*
Im willing to help write fluff IF people help with ideas. Im an average writer but I stink at comeing up with ideas. I can take an idea and run with it but have real trouble coming up with fluff of my own. So if WE want to take a stab at it...let me know... Im down to try.
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OOOOhhhhhh I mentioned this on TMP, but the 54mm would be good to cherry pick for a fig or to to repaint as statues. ;D
I agree with coil might be a very good source for large mutant chronicles statues which will fit in perfectly with everything else.
I've got over 1500 warzone minis why would I want to collect a collectible game now?
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OOOOhhhhhh I mentioned this on TMP, but the 54mm would be good to cherry pick for a fig or to to repaint as statues. ;D
I agree with coil might be a very good source for large mutant chronicles statues which will fit in perfectly with everything else.
I've got over 1500 warzone minis why would I want to collect a collectible game now?
But these are nice and soft and rubbery-and you never get what you want so you have to buy more! What? You don't want them yet?
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Archer, Madbrad, Philly et al. I applaud your enthusiasm but I for one do not share it. Yes the core rules system in UWZ is awesome. Fairly fluid for quick play but has enough complexity to create good strategic and tactical games. However, the fluff is Mutant Chronicles! If you take away/change the fluff you destroy the game. I am not a minis fan. I never was and never will be. I prefer a game that I can take out of the box, set it up and play. Modeling. painting, and building terrain is not fun, it is work to me. With that said, you think I would be a fan of FFG but, I'm not for the same reason that I don't like the idea of redoing the fluff. When I spoke to the FFG reps at GenCon 2007, they could not tell me a thing about the game, other than the rules of how to play. Therefore it was already a "dead" game, even more so than UWZ! I am a role-player (as I'm sure many of you are too) and as such I thrive on the color and flavor of the game. I was first drawn into the MC universe through the DoomTroopers card game. From there I discovered the role-playing game and quickly fell in love with the rich full well developed history and the dark, gritty feel. Remember the role-playing game was around first and gave birth to Warzone. If it wasn't for this, the heart and soul of the MC Universe, I would have never ever considered sinking my money into the expensive hobby of table top miniatures.
I'm not saying that you can't make vibrant and exciting fluff to rival this, I'm just saying that no sequeal (generally speaking) is as good as the original. AND why work on a sequeal when we have a very fine product already?
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I'm not saying that you can't make vibrant and exciting fluff to rival this, I'm just saying that no sequeal (generally speaking) is as good as the original. AND why work on a sequeal when we have a very fine product already?
Very good points sir.
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Well we've got some free pdf's to look forward to from Thom. That's a good thing. Our community is intact, we have lots of good trading going on, community support for makers of proxies overseas, and a yearly event that rocks. I'm guessing the state of the nation is alright.
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i also think the "living rulebook" is the only way to ever attrackt ppl.
also, we are all collectors here, no one else could dream of an easy accessable warzone army ~1000 P.
if the rules, and perhaps some rule evolution, live, it will be a great deed already!
with the pdf rulebooks, the new players could even turn into the "real" fluff after gotten hooked.
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But back to the original topic in the first post - I wasn't here last year, but am dang glad to be here now and want to say thanks to all you fellas for the warm welcome!
D
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With the price of metals, is there anyone on this forum that could possibly buy now, at today's prices, all the models they currently have?
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No way I could.
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With the price of metals, is there anyone on this forum that could possibly buy now, at today's prices, all the models they currently have?
I happen to have 50 lbs. (22.72 kg) of antimony laced lead in my possession - anyone got molds? ;)
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With the price of metals, is there anyone on this forum that could possibly buy now, at today's prices, all the models they currently have?
Hmmm.... *looks at all Warzone(300+), Chrono(125+), 40k (400+), Battlemechs (300+ mechs alone), Gears (30) and BFG ships (30+)*
No f'ing way. I'd need to win a lottery.
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With the price of metals, is there anyone on this forum that could possibly buy now, at today's prices, all the models they currently have?
Nope definitely not, I bought over £500 worth a few years ago ( a last binge to fill some gaps when it was being dropped first time around) and they were a 1/3 of the '95 prices (so effectively £1500 worth of figures) so no way could I afford the eBay for prince august prices.
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Fuhgedaboudit.
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Was toying with the idea of using the UWZ rules for an updated version of Battletech's Battletroops, not sure how to work some of it though, anyone else think I'm nuts?
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Was toying with the idea of using the UWZ rules for an updated version of Battletech's Battletroops, not sure how to work some of it though, anyone else think I'm nuts?
The only problem I see is Warzone is more small individual squad maneuvers with each member of the squad being able to do several different tasks.
If you could have it so you were using small squads of troops (some armored some power armored maybe the odd elemental) it could work but if you were to incorporate the mechs or vehicles I don't think it will work as well as they will be too powerful.
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No wasn't going to try incorporating the vehicles or Mechs, lets face it when the mechs start rolling you need A LOT more then a couple of squads of P.B.I.s, Total Warfare is where that belongs. The original Battletroops and Clantroops expansion both avoided the big stuff and kept it just to the grunts which is what I was thinking of doing.
The idea of the Battle Armour is the thing I keep tripping over.
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I think the troops can be easily used as any corp troops. Assaults as assaults, Heavy & Light are represented there within each of the corps
And Elementals, Battle Suits as an equivalent to Vulkans, Orcas, & Mekas in stats and costs.
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And Elementals, Battle Suits as an equivalent to Vulkans, Orcas, & Mekas in stats and costs.
well, a good oportunity to include medium size, high cost, high mobility, high firepower-vehicles in the game..
after all, elementals can fly and have rockets & hmg´s--