Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Chronopia => Game Questions => Topic started by: fuko on October 20, 2005, 04:30:28 AM
-
1. Wolf Legion Standard and Gauntlet have according to FAQ MV=3, what about other Legion (Warriors and Leader)?(I think that there is something wrong with their costs as well...)
2. I have a problem with Dark Tusk totem - it has tusk attack, than in other line it is written that he may make sweep attack - does it mean that he may make both of them or only one (chosen by player) in one action?
-
.....2. I have a problem with Dark Tusk totem - it has tusk attack, than in other line it is written that he may make sweep attack - does it mean that he may make both of them or only one (chosen by player) in one action?.....
I would go for the second alternative. The tusk attack is to be used to enter combat by charging the enemy, or when already in close combat. but when you are already engaged in close combat you may choose to attack your opponent or to make the sweep attack or grab and hurl attack.
just my two cents...
Anomander Rake
-
....1. Wolf Legion Standard and Gauntlet have according to FAQ MV=3, what about other Legion (Warriors and Leader)?(I think that there is something wrong with their costs as well...)....
here is the exact paragraph from the FAQs
Dwarven Stats:
Wolf Legion Gauntlet Warriors and Standard Bearer (page 207)- AR=20, MV=3
Wolf Axe Warriors & Leader (page 208)- MV=3
Wolf Clan Scouts & Leader (page 208)- MV=3
Horned Ones Warshields, Musicians, Standard Bearers & Leader (pages 211-212)- MV=3
When reading the introduction to the wolf clan on page 189 (The Military) they are described to be the fastest of all dwarves...so I would assume that all wolf clan legions should move with speed 3.
just my two cents...
Anomander Rake
-
I'm well on my way to 3000 points of Wolf Clan Dwarves, and I'm happy they corrected the movement for these guys, and the armor and point costs. It could be worded better, I agree, but it is inferred that the whole army moves 3", except the Desert Wolf Warriors at 4"! Makes for a very interesting army to play.
Regarding the Dark Tusk Ram Attack: I'm pretty sure it is only on a charge that they get this attack. If the model is already in CC, it does not get this, but sweep then can come into bear. Sweep is cool, but can ONLY be used once you are in CC, not on a charge.
-
I'm not talking about Durk Tusk special attack, but about Dark Tusk Blood Totem and his tusk and sweep attack - both those attacks cost 1 action, they are natural attacks so could be made simultaneusly but they are written in separate paragraphs, without any "and" between them so I'm a bit confused...
-
My mistake fuko. :-[ If nobody chimes in to clear this up before me, I'll read over the Dark Tusk Totem tonight, and have a look. Cheers.
-
I'm not talking about Durk Tusk special attack, but about Dark Tusk Blood Totem and his tusk and sweep attack - both those attacks cost 1 action, they are natural attacks so could be made simultaneusly but they are written in separate paragraphs, without any "and" between them so I'm a bit confused...
Correct. Since both are classified as Natural Weapons, they can both be used.
And, consequently, so can the Grab, since it is also a Natural Weapon....
mwahahahahaaaa......
-
Southpaw, you are one of the good ones.
-
can we get an answer from E.Prime for the Totem question? :)
-
IN the rule book on page 94 under natural weapons this is written
" Anytime a model has more than one Natural weapon to attack with, it may attack with ALL its Natural Weapons for each Action spent, unless otherwise stated in the models profile"
-
Like Anubis said, you make both Attacks at the same time. Because the nature of the attacks are different "weapons", One is the Tusk attack, and the other a slap with the massive arms, I see no reason why the Totem can not use both at the same time.
-
IN the rule book on page 94 under natural weapons this is written
" Anytime a model has more than one Natural weapon to attack with, it may attack with ALL its Natural Weapons for each Action spent, unless otherwise stated in the models profile"
When you have a look at the other totem profiles there is always an 'and' between there different Natural Weapons. In the case of the dark tusk there is no connection to the different weapon attacks...
-
well for me the tusk totem just has different options when in combat:
1st If it want to dish out massive damage to one Modell (usualy when in melee with an individual).
2nd Instead of that it can choose to do Sweep (usefull if its swarmed by enemy units)
Sweepattacks are practically multiple attacks per one action (on such a big beast plain ugly).
3rd in special situations it may decide to grap and hurl, wich gives it another flexible attack "choice".
The three different attacks are "techniques" done with a natural weapon. and not natural weapons by itsefl.
just my two cents ^^
-
.....The three different attacks are "techniques" done with a natural weapon. and not natural weapons by itsefl......
#
Yeah, that's the same way I read the rules, you can choose what kind of attack you want to make!
Furthermore you can't use all three options at the same time cause the Grab and Hurl takes two actions...
just my two cents....
-
OMG!!
my main army is an all darktusk force.
I never knew I could us all my natural attacks.
.....*blink*....
.....*blink*....
...I think I just blown a load in my shorts. :P
THE EVIL I CAN NOW REAP ON THE BATTELFIELD MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ;D
.....I think I need to sit down, uh wait I'm already sitting .
-steve
-
Well there are two different points of view so I think that there should be some official word...
-
Anubis31 works for EE
anything more offical is if thom writes it himself.
my 2 cents
-steve
-
Thats why i want to hear it from Thom, who is the man for the rules, till than i simple wont believe it ;)
-
Is the rulebook official enough?
Page 94:
Anytime a model has more than one Natural weapon to attack with, it may attack with ALL its Natural Weapons for each Action spent, unless otherwise stated in the models profile
That's what Anubis31 posted on the previous page.
-
Nope its not, like the Soulflyer breathing from another higband issue i like to hear the rulemaster on that, the Rulebook paragraph there wasnt suffiecent either ;).
BTW how does the Totem 3 grap and hurl attacks (stated as natural attacks) but it needs two actions to do it? Can it make 3 attacks in the first action than? (all three kinds) and than only 2 next two? So much questions, your little paragraph dont covers :)
I just read through my version of the rulebook and it states:
That the Totem "has" a Tusk attack, Natural Weapon .... -> agreed on
The other two attacks both start like:
It "may" sweep and it "may" spend 2 actions to grap and hurl .....
It dont states it "has" this attacks it says it may decide to use the other two forms of its natrual attack instead off the tusk one.
Just my two cents after reading the wording of the rules.
-
A little patience I'm just checking my logic with someone before I post what I believe is the correct interpretation according to the book. :)
-
Ok, here we go. :)
P.202
The Dark-Tusk Blood Totem has a Tusk Attack, Natural Weapon - (1x) Tusk (15)
No problem here a normal Natural Weapon.
The Dark Tusk Totem may make a Sweep attack with its massive arms. The Totem selects one model in base-to-base contact with it (front facing only) and makes a normal attack against it. If the attack misses, the Sweep attack is over. If it is successfull, the model suffers a Slap Attack, Natural Weapon - (1x) Sweep (14), and is knocked back 2 inches. .....
First of all this attack can clearly only be done when it is already in base-contact with someone (says so in the 2nd sentence). So you cannot do it on a charge.
Now the question is can you combine it with something else? Now we turn to p.94.
Anytime a model has more than one Natural weapon to attack with, it may attack with all its Natural Weapons for each Action spent, unless otherwise stated in the models profile
Is the Sweep attack a Natural Weapon? Yep, says so in the description and it is even bolded. The above paragraph is quite clear that you can indeed attack with all your natural weapons. Except if otherwise stated. The description of Sweep does not state otherwise so no problem there.
What about Grab then?
The Dark Tusk Blood Totem may spend two actions to make a Grab and Hurl attack against a size 3 or less, [b)Natural Weapon - (1x) Grab (9).[/b]
Grab requires two Actions to use so clearly it cannot be combined with the other two.
Does that make things more clear?
/Andreas
-
sounds not bad at all ;)
i'm not totaly happy as it overpowers the totem even more but well its the rules so i gonna live with it :'(
-
I don't think it's too bad. Sweep can after all only be used once already in CC which limits it a bit and the first miss you roll stops the Sweep.
-
Yeah i think its ok :)
-
Ruther--I think you'll find the Totem is not overpowered after your armies kill a few of them. They are powerful, but there's nothing in the game that can not be taken out by a squad of well played, and lucky, grunts. What army do you play?
-
hmmm good question :)
Blackbloods, SoK, Stygians,Swampies (bigger armies) Firsborn and Devout (smaller ones).
-
Well my friend killed my Blood-Bone Totem with a unit of Orc Assault Warriors, with a standard of vitality. That gives +1 to strength, meaning they get +1 damage with their spears and composite bows! They are already Steadfast, so they won't be afraid of the Totem, and they have a good chance at killing it at range.
Stygian have no fear of the Totem at all from any of their troops. You can kill it with enough axe warriors leaping in. It's a big model, so add all those bonuses for multiple attackers. The Devout have no fear either and can find similar ways to bring down the Totem.
I'm not a swampie, or Firstborn player yet, but you get the idea. Every army has a means to take down the big model, especially if it goes out unsupported. Cheers.
-
Yeah i think it can be handled just need to get my dwarfen player up to some testgames sometimes :)
-
I concur 100% with Coil's summation of how the attacks should work. If I were a dwarf player playing this totem, the sequence of events would look something like this:
Totem is surrounded by Orc Warrior A,B,C and D.
1st action: Tusk attack! Let's say it kills Orc A. And then the sweep attack hits B but B makes his armor save. Sweep attack automatically ends.
2nd action: Tusk attack! Let's say it misses Orc B. And then the Sweep attack hits B, killing him, and C killing him and then misses D.
3rd action: Tusk attack! Let's say it hits but Orc D saves, and then the sweep hits and kills him.
This is a perfectly logical sequence of events. Let's try it another way with the same situation.
1st action: Tusk attack hits and kills! The sweep hits and kills B and C.
2nd and 3rd action: The totem decides to pick up and throw the last Orc in a fit of anger and is successful!
A little more violent and less likely to happen (given the odds) but perfectly plausible.
-
2nd and 3rd action: The totem decides to pick up and throw the last Orc in a fit of anger and is successful!
A little more violent and less likely to happen (given the odds) but perfectly plausible.
Yeah, but it's butt-loads of fun whenever it does work...remember the flying cows in Twister?
Now picture an Orc doing the same thing... :D
-
2nd and 3rd action: The totem decides to pick up and throw the last Orc in a fit of anger and is successful!
A little more violent and less likely to happen (given the odds) but perfectly plausible.
Yeah, but it's butt-loads of fun whenever it does work...remember the flying cows in Twister?
Now picture an Orc doing the same thing... :D
I am somewhat concerned by your lack of deference and awe when mentioning the Blackblood Empire Southpaw - perhaps a game is in order to remind you of the greatness that is the Bloodthrone?
-
2nd and 3rd action: The totem decides to pick up and throw the last Orc in a fit of anger and is successful!
A little more violent and less likely to happen (given the odds) but perfectly plausible.
Yeah, but it's butt-loads of fun whenever it does work...remember the flying cows in Twister?
Now picture an Orc doing the same thing... :D
I am somewhat concerned by your lack of deference and awe when mentioning the Blackblood Empire Southpaw - perhaps a game is in order to remind you of the greatness that is the Bloodthrone?
Bring it on. 8)
-
Official answer for Rauther...
The rules as quoted by Anubis are correct. The totem may attack (conditions allowing) with both his tusk attack and his slap/sweep attack in the same action. The third attack option is a special attack that requires two actions to perform. It precludes the use of other tactics during its use. Thank you Wedge and Coil for enumerating the point so well. Enjoy and good luck.
-
i already got convinced 8)