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Talaminiatures => General Discussions => Topic started by: Veez on October 19, 2006, 04:28:56 AM

Title: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Veez on October 19, 2006, 04:28:56 AM
I have at last decided to drop my subscription to White Dwarf.

I have subscribed to this rag for literally years but enough is enough. 
Most people complain that it is just an advertisement for GW products.  I don't have a problem with this really.  What does but me is that I only play 40k.  The magazine is primarly divided between Warhammer, LoTR, and 40k but time and time again only about 1/6th of the magazine is devoted to 40k and then it is usually the same sort of fluff or repeated articles you can find on line.  Occasionally they have some good pics and articles but these have become few and far between.  The battle reports generally seem to follow the stereotype of the new army winning the battle.   Frankly, for my five dollars I expect more the five minutes of reading.

I don't mind Warhammer so much and it has some great figs for conversions, but no one plays LoTR.  It's a freaking waste of pewter and space and is dragging GW down now that the movies are no longer fresh.
Frankly over the past few months, I've found that the enthusiasm and team spirit here far outweighs what I see on the average 40k forum and I have not even touched my 40K stuff (except to move the cases out of the way) since I finished off painting some figs six months ago.

From here on out I'll flip through the latest copy at my FLGS to see if it is worth picking up, but mindlessly clogging up my bathroom with issues read through in five minutes is over.
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Dr. Nick on October 19, 2006, 05:35:23 AM
pritty much the same opinion here in germany ... WD becomes worse and worse and LothR? Who gives a ****...

well, I started WHFB (and have a huge, mostly painted army now) and wanted to go SiFi with warzone... well... 40K never appealed to me..

40 K has this strange morale with it that turned me off.. of course warzone is sick, too, but there is a difference..

in 40K genocide, torture or enslavement are not only ways to make the world grim, its part of the "cool" of that game..

just think aboute the witchhunter-army, but any space marienes will do..

=> no 40 K for me... not even with warzone figures! (yes I admit, I had this in mind, but after a demo game: no more.. the whole army moves may be good in whfb, but in a skirmish system with many squats ( and artillery)?) together with the "spirit" of that game:  :P

Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on October 19, 2006, 05:46:16 AM
While I love 40ks fluff, and to the same extent, the fluff for WHF, I just can't seem to get into the game very much.  OK, I do have a few Chaos SM armies, and a sizable Tau one, but it's the rules.  The freakin' terrible rules.  WHF at least has a roleplaying game to go with it.  That's why I converted the Tau to Warzone rules.  I'd hate to see an army I spent so much on go to waste.
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Coil on October 19, 2006, 12:52:46 PM
I agree with you about the fluff in 40k Aldrien. Having a dark setting is all nice and well but 40k in my opinion takes it too far.

There's no hope in that universe only despair. The Warzone background is also dark, but not all of it and you know that in the corporations there are lots of normal people living their lives.
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: PFC joe on October 19, 2006, 01:38:29 PM
While the 40k Fluff provides for an entertaining read (when there is nothin else at all), the gameplay fails to reflect on that at all.  It is like bein promised a day at a Six Flags amusement park and instead only gettin a balloon and a ride on yer sisters tricycle in the backyard (but still havin to pay the amusement park price).

-PFC joe
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Ruther on October 19, 2006, 01:50:17 PM
Dunno i never ever palyed any of the GW games nor do i own a single figure. I started with Chronopia and warzone and stayed with it over the years. If i want real Space Marines i watch Alien 2  ;D.
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: ezekiel on October 19, 2006, 08:50:14 PM
all gw stuff seems to be for those with no imagination. they tell you whos squad is what,how to paint and such. my freind has a brother who put painted figs on ebay,he cant sell them if theyre painted anything other than space wolves or ultra marines. think for yourself!
 i may use their figs from time to time but they cost way too much and the late production wz figs are just as good sculpts! bauhaus jungle commandos,cybertronic shock troops. the early wz stuff looks kinda cheezy,but the figs that came out afterward rock!   
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Dr. Nick on October 20, 2006, 04:05:08 AM
well, the quality of the gw minis is very, very good. itīs a question, of course, if you like skulls, purity seals, statues or gothic stuff.. (batman, anyone?)

the warzone stuff is far more... "retro".. most figs are bad/strange, honestly.. (slaughtermaster ;D, taking a ****)

of course, many of the new troops where very nice, but thats only very few.. LI, HI, Blitzers, brotherhood troopers, and some others, but far not all,
like jaegers, shock troops or hussars are pritty bad, in my eye...

but the figs ARE the reason to like the game, beside the fluff, at least for me (even though I was a little disappointed by the assault marienes, when I saw them... the "fullback" is taken too litteraly...

@fluff: what I really like is that humanity is fighting because they are corrupted by the dark symmetry into exeggerated pride/hate/etc.

in gw, there regulary the "sacrifice" of your troops is highlightet (ritus exterminatus, eg.) asl well as execution/transformation of soldiers, who only slightly commited "heresy" or insubordinace..

it is the religiouse fanatic smell I donīt like.. your officer does not put you to war trial, he kills you for not beeing a total obidient servant to him, and in the end to the emperor-god.. (who "eats" 100ets of voluntier-psionics to survive).

everything is too-- one wayed:
the orcs destroy always, no civilization -> genetic coded knowlage -> pure battlerace -> the only reaction to them is killing them
the necrons come, kill, go -> the only reaction to them is killing them
elder: attack because they must (to change flow of events)-> humans donīt understand -> the only reaction to them is killing them
(as well, the space-mariens think: aliens->the only reaction to them is killing them)
Dark elder: super evil -> the only reaction to them is killing them

in summary, the game follows this mechanism:

the individual needs to sacrifice himself (tau/elder: greater good/flow of fate, orcs: donīt care death, want kill, SM: fanatic, self sacrificing,...)

the solution is destruction, like ritus exterminatus, or general eradiction

the means: whats most effective: no humanity remains, everything goes. there is no mercy, even to your own people (servitor, anyone?)

and that all is simply not so great... definitivly less appeling than a colonized solar system with corps/factions who function normaly, and only sometimes start war, but at a faaaar lesser extremistic style than the 40k factions..

Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on October 20, 2006, 12:30:32 PM
I will have to say this about 40k.  If you pile on the terrain, the game gets MUCH more fun.
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Sylvas on October 20, 2006, 06:34:20 PM
I will have to say this about 40k.  If you pile on the terrain, the game gets MUCH more fun.

sometimes...that just means that for my Eldar army, I can't use all of my speedy stuff...

but be that as it may....it's been something like 3 years since I last played a game of 40K, and the reason that I stopped was not the game (although, I hated what they did to 3rd Ed.), but the people that play the game...I have been to several local (Cleveland, Oh) 40K tournaments in which there were numerous arguments and a couple of fistfights...and one of the fights was at Origins 3 years ago!...

in the time since I discovered that WZ had been re-released (I was a 2nd Ed player that, after Target went belly up, thought the game was dead and gone), I have met some great people (Topkick, Stalker, Jason[don't know his forum name]), and more importantly, have never gotten into an argument that amounted to more than not understanding a SA...I've never been able to say that in any game of 40K that I have ever played since 3rd Ed came out...

in short...I'll never get rid of my 40K stuff (too much invested in it), but I'll only dust it off if the situation is right, and so far, it hasn't been right...

WOW...that almost sounded intelligent...
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: LordPez on October 22, 2006, 04:32:00 AM
Well it seems the thread derailed from "Why I'll no Longer Sub to WD" to "Why I Dislike the GW Stuff".  ;)
Truth be told, it isn't really the ultra dark fluff of 40K that turns me off, I sorta like the there-is-no-hope atmoshpere. It's the never ending rehash of the same stuff and discontiuation (that a real word?) of the current/past stuff that has gotten me a bit annoyed. The LoTR crap too. Anyway, I'm a Necromunda fan, bigtime. However, this game wasn't a huge moneymaker, thus it got scrapped. *cue sigh*. Yeah, it used the 2nd Ed 40K mechanics, and thus it could get bogged down. But darn it, it was fun! The current edition of Kill Everything Not Human in Space has alienated me (pun intended?) with watered down rules, etc.

Hmm. Seems I forgot where i was going with all of this. Suppose that's what happens when one posts under the evil influence of JD in the early hours of a (Westcoast) morning.

hasta luego.
Title: Re: Breaking the Habit
Post by: Sylvas on October 22, 2006, 07:36:34 AM
well, back to the original point of this thread....I am probably going to do the same thing when my sub expires...I just don't have the desire (or the money) to continue to support the parent company...