Magnitude

[chribu]

The manual says:
The Magnitude of a Power denotes its complexity and the effort necessary [..]
The player of the Channeling model that wishes to make a Channel test for the particular Power must add or subtract that Magnitude number from the Channeling model's Power (PW) value. [..]
Note: Should a model be the unwilling subject of a successfully manifested power, the magnitude of the power is subtracted from the model's relevant stat for testing purposes.


In which cases do I add the the magnitude number to the PW value?

[Dragon62]

Magnitude is always sutracted when casting and from unwilling subjects. Where to adding comes in is from Concentrating. Spend 1 action for +2 or 2 actions for +4   Exsample cast The Cardinal's Crimson Blow magnitude 2  concentrate 2 actions  PW-13    action 1 concentrate action 2 concentrate action 3 cast     13-2+2+2=15  thats where add/subtract comes in.

[chribu]

but there i'm adding 2 for concentrating. I'm not adding the magnitude of the spell.
It says there that in some cases you should add the magnitude of the spell.

[Stalker]

If you concentrate then you add plus 2 to the power of the caster (I believe that only one action can be spent concentrating) If a target is unwilling and they get affected by the spell,  they get a resistance roll versus the spell.  The magnitude of the spell is subtracted from the targets LD before making the test.

[chribu]

so you NEVER add the magnitude of the spell?

i.e. if the target is willing?

[Dragon62]

Magnitude is always subtracted and concentrating is cumulative check page 84  13.4

[chribu]

Yes but look at 13.15 page 86
"The magnitude .. denotates its complexity"
"The player ... must ADD OR SUBTRACT that magnitude number"

[Dragon62]

With out concentrating magnitude is always subtracted.   The add comes from concentrating. Exp. Spell magnitude is 1 concentrate 1 action would then give you an add of 1 to PW.  PW+2-1=PW+1

[chribu]

Crimson blow:
A successful Channel of this Aspect causes a conduit between the Channeler and the target in which a bolt of energy is funneled.
The Channeler may target any enemy model within range. The DAM of the attack is 9 +1 point of damage for each two points of Magnitude added.

How can you add Magnitude? Is it supposed to be variable?

[Wedge]

Crimson blow:
A successful Channel of this Aspect causes a conduit between the Channeler and the target in which a bolt of energy is funneled.
The Channeler may target any enemy model within range. The DAM of the attack is 9 +1 point of damage for each two points of Magnitude added.

How can you add Magnitude? Is it supposed to be variable?

The base damage of the spell is 9.  For every two points of magnitude you "add" to the spell it makes it more powerful but also more difficult to cast.  You simply decide how strong of spell you want it to be, that's why it is variable.  Example:

Let's say you want to make it 11 damage instead of the base 9.  To do so will make the magnitude of the spell increase by 4 making it that much harder to cast but the payoff will be better if you are successful.  In essence you are "adding" to the magnitude of the spell.

[Scorpion]

I have another sub question:
On page 86-87 (Save vs. Channel) is written:
"The model targeted by the Power would attempt to roll less than or equal to the listed Stat to resist the effects of the Channeled Power, remembering to substract the Magnitufe from the roll."

The magnitude is substact from all unwilling save test vs. the Power (LD, PW, AR, other) or only from test against LD + PW. Or just from LD? I did not notice anywhere, that the Magnitude is not substract from AR (in save tests), but it is logical (when some variable powers increase their DMG vs. AR only aftes adding magnitude - and not in the same proportion).

What for is the PW stat in non-channeling models? Only for info? I didn't see any power with PW save test what it suitable against normal models (only against channelers or supernaturals).
Thanks.

[Scorpion]

And what about environmental saves? Makes the Magnitude worse conditions for opponents (ATS - Magnitude)?

[Jervon]

I have another sub question:
On page 86-87 (Save vs. Channel) is written:
"The model targeted by the Power would attempt to roll less than or equal to the listed Stat to resist the effects of the Channeled Power, remembering to substract the Magnitufe from the roll."

The magnitude is substact from all unwilling save test vs. the Power (LD, PW, AR, other) or only from test against LD + PW. Or just from LD? I did not notice anywhere, that the Magnitude is not substract from AR (in save tests), but it is logical (when some variable powers increase their DMG vs. AR only aftes adding magnitude - and not in the same proportion).

What for is the PW stat in non-channeling models? Only for info? I didn't see any power with PW save test what it suitable against normal models (only against channelers or supernaturals).
Thanks.

Can someone answer those question plz.

[Lopis]

Never occured to me, but reading the lines I would say that the magnitude is substarcted from the stat that is used in the save roll.
The used stat is the one given in the Save-line of the power manifested, e.g. for a Cardinals Crimson Blow even from AR.
Sounds a bit weird to me, but following the lines of the rules it seems to come out this way.

BUT that would mean that an enhanced Cardinals Crimson Blow would have an effective DMG of 17 (!) if doing it with a magnitude of 6 [11 for the DMG and another -6 from the magnitude] 

For this one I would present this again for the FAQ-team...

And for the PW-satat for non-casters:

Iīd say itīs a stat that simply all models have. Possible it comes from earlier editions where the Resist-rolls were made against PW-stats.
Further it would be a bit unlogical to give the PW stat (a stat for ability/strentgh of mind) only to channelers. All have a mind and they have all astst line, even if its useless for many of them.....
And last but not least there is the power "Power Void". Itīs Save is against PW. It can be cast against channelers, but has a template effect.
Possible that other affected models are caught under it.
I would give them save against PW, where their PW comes in. And if they miss it they would have to roll the LD tests for performing anctions as noted in the spell.

But these are guesses.
Just put it up on the FAQ section.

[Archer]

Never occured to me, but reading the lines I would say that the magnitude is substarcted from the stat that is used in the save roll.
The used stat is the one given in the Save-line of the power manifested, e.g. for a Cardinals Crimson Blow even from AR.
Sounds a bit weird to me, but following the lines of the rules it seems to come out this way.

BUT that would mean that an enhanced Cardinals Crimson Blow would have an effective DMG of 17 (!) if doing it with a magnitude of 6 [11 for the DMG and another -6 from the magnitude] 

For this one I would present this again for the FAQ-team...

And for the PW-satat for non-casters:

Iīd say itīs a stat that simply all models have. Possible it comes from earlier editions where the Resist-rolls were made against PW-stats.
Further it would be a bit unlogical to give the PW stat (a stat for ability/strentgh of mind) only to channelers. All have a mind and they have all astst line, even if its useless for many of them.....
And last but not least there is the power "Power Void". Itīs Save is against PW. It can be cast against channelers, but has a template effect.
Possible that other affected models are caught under it.
I would give them save against PW, where their PW comes in. And if they miss it they would have to roll the LD tests for performing anctions as noted in the spell.

But these are guesses.
Just put it up on the FAQ section.

my two pennies... and how its been played.

Where no other Save is mentioned, the magnitude is subtracted from the PW of the target.

And you are correct Lopis.  Back in the day, there were PW saves versus certain powers.