Author Topic: Spotting a unit or a model?  (Read 7469 times)

Offline ezekiel

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2006, 07:46:07 PM »
in wargaming,unless you dont place your troops before hand,its hard to be impartial as to where you are trying to observe. if you are on patrol and you see figs somewhere its hard to ignore them and go the other way clearing brush, a house or other terrain features.
my group of folks adheres to the rules somewhat loosely. we keep an extra die on hand to make those "judgement rolls".for example"i roll even he goes left,odd he goes right "and such. if your mind is wrapped around wanting to unleash hell on that squad in medium range or being impartial and walking the other way ensuring an ambush and untold casualties! just a thought! it helps the game move quicker and adds a bit of randomness.
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Offline chribu

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2006, 05:04:11 AM »
Any more feedback on this? ???

Offline Stalker

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2006, 08:34:57 PM »
Hi!
Why?
I' haven't understood why I spot the entire squad.
Quickly Pag. 42 says: to spot a concealed model[...] If succesful[...] may act upon the formerly concealed model.
If I see an helmet behind a wall, I can say "Hey, guys! There's someone behind the wall! Fire to the black helmet behind the wall!"
I can't say "Hey, guys! There's someone behind the wall! Fire to the black helmet behind the wall, and the 2nd black helmet behind the rock, and the 3rd Black helmet behind the tree, and the..."

There is a children game but I don't know the english word...


Two reasons for spotting the entire unit.  The first is simplicity.  If you had to keep track of which models spotted which other models than you have a lot of record keeping and you might as well be playing some other system.  UWZ is designed to be a "Fast and Furious miniatures game"  The fast means that there is little record keeping required.  The second reason is the use of unit cards.  Up unitl a concealed (stalking/stealthing) unit is spotted the unit card represents the entire unit.  So when the unit is spotted, the card is removed and models are placed on the table appropriately.  Thus, no record keeping.
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Offline ezekiel

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2006, 07:07:13 PM »
makes sense to me
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Offline jjdodger

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2006, 06:19:53 PM »
when a stalk or lurk model choses to reveal itself to attack a model, who can now see it? the unit it is attacking, or the whole board?

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2006, 07:09:27 PM »
Whole board.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2006, 10:48:33 PM »
Whole board.

I do not agree.  The rules state the opposite, IIRC.
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2006, 11:32:05 PM »
Stalk - "a stalking model loses its Stalking status if it is successfully spotted by the enemy, or performs any Action other than to Move, Wait, Aim, or Concentrate."

Lurk - "...have all the skills of a level six stalker..."  Same as Stalk except at any point (outside of CC) if they save against an RC attack they insta-stalk again.

When revealed it looks like they become regular units until they can re-enter Stalk.

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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2006, 06:47:38 AM »
PFCjoe is correct. Also the Stalk value is subtracted from the spot roll when attemping to spot the model, and yes it can re-enter stalk with the cost of 1 action with no enemy within 6" and LOS of the stalker. May only be attempted once per turn.
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Offline Coil

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2006, 12:54:37 PM »
Sptting is one of the parts where I find myself disagreeing with the rules (and perhaps with the rest of the FAQ Team).

Spot clearly says that you spot a concealed model by making a spot check. That's quite ok with me.

The it goes on to say that
Quote
If successful any model in the Squad that passed the Spot check, or any other Squad Given Orders by the spotting model, may act upon the formerly concealed model. Friendly models separate from the Spotting model's squad or outside the range of a Give ORders command cannot act upon the concelaed model until they also Spot it
This is a part I do not like since it requires the players to keep track of which unit can see or not. In my opinion this jsut creates unneccessary record keeping.

On page 112 we learn that Stealthy and Stalking units move their cards until revealed. Normally you reveal a card by getting with in LD inches of it. If the card contains a Stealth or Stalk unit the card is not revealed.

So basically as written you would never be able Spot that unit of Wolfbanes sneaking up on you, unless they perform an action which removes Stealth, since you Spot models and not cards.

This would actually be quite nasty and guaranteeing that those Wolfbanes get to do something useful. If one wanted to make Stealth good this would be the option to go with.

Another option would be that when I get a model within LD inches of a Stealth or Stalk card the model(s) is placed on the table but still Stealthed. Once on the table they can be Spotted.

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2006, 01:29:08 PM »
With the exception of cards with special abilities a model should be able to use an action to make a spot check against a card if it has LOS to it. Waiting until you are in LD of a card means after turn 1 the only card or units with SA need to be spotted.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2006, 02:04:46 AM »
Perhaps I am rehashing what has been already stated.  However, I thin that there is a basic premise here that is being overlooked.

A model (unit) is only revealed to the spotting unit (even if the mdoel/unit reveals itself in attacking/charging) only to the unit that spotted it it.  Therefore, no other enemy unit may act upon it without, first, spotting it.

If a Stalking model is, suddenly, visible to all the enemy snipers because it decided to come out of the shadows to attack, it is a useless skill.  It should only be visible to the model(s) being attacked.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Coil

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2006, 02:56:24 AM »
It's not being overlooked. At least not by me. The rules say that only the other members of the Spotting model's squad etc can see the revealed model.

As I tried to explain above that is something I do not like.

Offline jjdodger

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2006, 05:59:20 PM »
So, can we get an "Official clarification" on this? the part that is still not completely agreed upon is, if a stalking/stealthy unit "self reveals" (ie, charges, etc), is it now revelaed to only the squad which it charges, or to the whole board?

I presume that it is understood that, to act upon a "surrently concealed" model, one must spot it, and then only the squad whop spots it, or was given orders to by an individual who spotted it, can then act upon it.

Offline behemoth

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Re: Spotting a unit or a model?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2006, 10:57:09 AM »
We play it like this:

1) you need to spot a unit card if it has Stealth or Stalk. It is not automatically revealed when it enters LD distance of anything.
2) Upon spotting, the unit in question is now deployed (my Wolfbane HMGs get easily to PB distance of enemy models this way) and each of the individual models are now considered to have the SA of Stealthy, but only against units that were not involved in the spotting action. The spotting unit's models sees them clearly.
3) The Stealthy models automatically lose their Stealth for the whole board once they engage in any activity other than waiting/moving in stealth mode.


This seems to be working very well and actually makes models with Stealth useful in certain situations.
In essence one spots the unit card and the spotting unit sees the whole unit, but other units see nothing until they spot the individual models. In practice there has been next to no record keeping since the Stealthy models are very quickly fully acting after they are initially revealed.

As said, this is how we understand the rules and play them and in practice this seems to work very well.

We are (my group), however, not in agreement whether or not a Stealthy individual (represented by a unit card) can take command of a Stealthy unit (represented by a unit card). Common sense would dictate the individual (like Wolfbane Captain) can whisper his commands or use his fingers or whatever to take command, but the actual rules seems to indicate this action also makes them all lose their Stealth status (ie. revealing the card and forcing deployment as well).
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