Author Topic: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG  (Read 51481 times)

Offline Pietia

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2006, 01:23:19 AM »
I think, that Warzone has some future, and the future is not much worse without Excelsior. The strength of any miniature game lies in its fanbase, not in the company that supports it. Warzone survived few years without any support and will live on. Maybe we will have to convert our own minis from GW sets (although I guess that most of you guys have enough minis for a few lifetimes). In Poland Warzone survived for years with no support, no new minis - and Polish Warzone community is a very strong (if small) one. New rules, new force lists, new units - all those things may appear once the fans stop waiting for a company to make them and start developing the game  they love themselves (e.g. in Poland we have a fan project in which we develop force lists for urban combat - armies like Capitol Security Police, Yakuza etc.). With few hundred fans worldwide such new rules may appear much faster than Excelsior could make them - after all it was a small company. Unless Paradox will choose to send "cease and desist" letters to such fans of course...

Offline Catinator

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2006, 02:01:19 AM »
Just to add my 2 cents as well - even if most of my thoughts were already mentioned.

FFG is producing something that (and we got it stated) is not Warzone. Based on others experience, it could turn out to be a good thing - even of not the cup for all of us.
On the positive side it can attract a lot of new people to the MC universe, and I really appreciate that actually someone in connection to FFG is giving informations about it.

To MikeE: Be a bit more understanding - for many of us the Warzone issue is a really deep cutting issue. Just concentrate on the CMG but you might get some useful information reading the forums here. I wish you good luck.

Warzone (and Chronopia) has a very strong fanbase and with enough "presence" Paradox might realize that there is still a lot of money in there. The problem is - I don`t know what kind of licence FFG has - does it potentially allows Warzone? Or Warzone is another licence?

In the meantime just keep playing and wait for our chances. ;)

                               Greetings,

                                                    Catinator

Offline The One King

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2006, 04:59:28 PM »
There are some of us who have invested more than time and money in this endeavor - I'm talking sweat, blood, heart and soul and for us this is not the news of Warzone's salvation. We are saddened at this ending and worried about the health of our brother and friend Thom Talamini.

If you want to stay be respectful of our loss and mindful of your manners as we would and will on your forums. Otherwise leave us in peace to regroup and help one another thru this.

I'm in full agreement and expect to be putting more Blood, Sweat, Heart and Soul into this in at Origins 2006.

Mike, if you want to know what the EE family is all about, you'll see it there.
It's clobberin time!

Offline Coldthunder

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2006, 09:23:28 PM »
I have watched the forums over the past few days and I will admit that I was outraged that anyone from another company would come to EE’s web site and try to hawk their product. To me it's like vultures trying to pick the bones of my dying dog before I have had a chance to cure him.  I will also admit that it saddens me to see the end of my favorite game.  Although many of the fans have not given up on their favorite games and I'm one of them.  I have enough miniatures to hold onto and play the game with whoever will play with me.  I have been around long enough to see several game systems come, go and evolve.  I wish FFG all luck in the world.  I commend all those open-minded people who really enjoyed Warzone and Ultimate Warzone for keeping an open mind and hoping for a game system that will do the mutant chronicles universe justice.  I may even be one of them.  I further admit that the reason I got into this game was the background.  What kept me in the game was the Ultimate Warzone system. If Thom sees an opportunity to use the system with another background I am more likely to go in that direction.

I have been playing miniatures off and on for over 20 years now, the evolution of these games have varied in many ways.  Some systems change, for balance sake, and for simplicity's sake.  Most change for money's sake.  I can't count the number of games that I enjoyed only to see them pulled from the market for the sake of change only to see that I have to purchase more (More rules, more figures, and more money).  I have come to the conclusion that I would not be interested in another CMG game unless it is something that is not yet on the market.  Example…. I bought into Pirates because there was not another fantasy boat game available on the market that I have found.  I have GW's version (with a sweet little dwarf fleet I might add) but found it difficult to find a game with it as it holds a very special and limited click in the community.  I might add that ships and system has been discontinued.  I might also add that Pirates are becoming very annoying.  I think the best game out there has to be Monopoly, the old system is still there and usable yet they infused new life into the game by building a theme around the game so that you can play any version you wish.  They have adapted the popularity of various movies i.e. Star Wars, Star Trek and Lord of the Rings…. as well as used new technology (the computer version).  Through it all they've maintained the old classics and stretched it into the future.  I can really see our next great depression coming from harvesting this rich market until there is nothing left for the soil to give.

In my lifetime I have seen miniatures go from an elite few that played historical miniatures with very complicated rules for each game, to the widespread gaming community for fantasy and science fiction.  Now it seems to me that their target market has dropped to the ages of preteens and early teens.  I think they should leave them alone and let them learn to add and subtract first.  But I realize that money is what makes the world go around and the more you can bleed the happier the companies will be. I can't point the finger at any one company for this situation in today’s society.  It is what we've come to expect.  As for this situation I cannot fault FFG for trying to drum up interest in a product of paradox’s that has been given such a bad reputation. FFG has a long hard road to plow.  Thom had to go through it after targets situation and I might add was just beginning to see the light of trust.  Maybe FFG will have a better chance.  I wish them all the luck in the world. I look forward to seeing what they do with it.  There is no need to speculate about a product without knowing what they will do with it.  I just request that you let this dieing dog lie before you pick his bones clean, who knows he might live in.

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brook

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2006, 12:32:48 AM »
I very much enjoyed Chronopia and WZ, and have done so since before target collapsed.  EE tried to revive the game.  However, from all appearances the company was under capitalized and surviving off the scraps of target. 

In fairness to Mike E.  You can't blame a anyone for having a discussion of any type on a website, where the post directly below discusses the  company's bankruptcy. 

The success of FFG's new game will be little influenced by the present WZ players.  However, it is admirable that FFG reach out and offer to include the current players in there plans.

WZ has struggled to survive for a long time.  Perhaps, FFG will be a platform to get these games rolling again.  If a new company is looking to the game's loyal fan base for input, that can't be a bad thing.

EE hasn't really contributed anything to signficantly further this game or the size of the fan base.  Furthermore, the quality of the UWZ rulebook was lacking.  This appears to be the result of under-capitalization rather than neglect.

Still it was sad to have watched both Target and EE wither and die.

I certainly wish the employees/gamers at EE all the best.

Offline mchiao

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2006, 07:09:46 AM »
Does this mean FFG is also doing Chronopia?  or Chronopia has become the red headed step child?

Offline Coil

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2006, 07:15:03 AM »
FFG is as far as anyone knows not doing Chronopia. The current information form Paradox is that they are talking to several interested parties about Chronopia.

Offline mchiao

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2006, 07:16:49 AM »
Kewl,

thanks for the update.

Offline kwegibu

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2006, 07:31:47 AM »
Now it seems to me that their target market has dropped to the ages of preteens and early teens.  I think they should leave them alone and let them learn to add and subtract first.

Come now, I hardly think that's fair. Perhaps I am an outlier but I have been playing WZ for over a decade and I started on the verge of teendom. Target market and actual market hardly mean a thing. That is especially relavent when you look at things like Star Wars or Doctor Who - or even the Wizard of Oz. They have giant international wizard of oz conventions every year and it's all adults. In short: Predjudice based on age is, like any broad predjudice, unjustified.

Offline jjdodger

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2006, 07:55:10 AM »
This is my perspective, and i admit, up front, that i have NOT read all the posts, etc, on this topic. But, seems to me that in order for FFG to have come up with this game they needed a bit more time than the last 3 months to do the R&D on a game system, playtest it, create all the molds and mini's, and produce the full kits and supplements, etc, etc. (my rough guess is 6 months, though i could be wrong)

My point is this: Would they have come out with this game even if EE was still in control of the Warzone liscence?  If the answer to this is "Yes", then, is it possible for someone else to obtain the rights to Warzone, and produce the mini's, rules, etc?

Offline Stalker

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2006, 11:37:07 AM »
I very much enjoyed Chronopia and WZ, and have done so since before target collapsed.  EE tried to revive the game.  However, from all appearances the company was under capitalized and surviving off the scraps of target. 

In fairness to Mike E.  You can't blame a anyone for having a discussion of any type on a website, where the post directly below discusses the  company's bankruptcy. 

The success of FFG's new game will be little influenced by the present WZ players.  However, it is admirable that FFG reach out and offer to include the current players in there plans.

WZ has struggled to survive for a long time.  Perhaps, FFG will be a platform to get these games rolling again.  If a new company is looking to the game's loyal fan base for input, that can't be a bad thing.

EE hasn't really contributed anything to signficantly further this game or the size of the fan base.  Furthermore, the quality of the UWZ rulebook was lacking.  This appears to be the result of under-capitalization rather than neglect.

Still it was sad to have watched both Target and EE wither and die.

I certainly wish the employees/gamers at EE all the best.


Brook

As civilized people I wish to disagree.  One can not (or at least should not) fault MikeE for coming to this forum and sharing the announcement as he did.  However, like an alcoholic mother-in-law on dialysis, he overstayed his welcome.  He continued to plug his new product and engage in unhealthy discussion.  This both disrespected UWZ fans and rubbed salt into the wound in our own house!

Second, EE is the one who put Warzone and Chronopia back on the map.  If it wasn't for EEs efforts, nobody would have ever been interested in making a movie and certainly, nobody would see the potential for profit in picking up the license for the MC Universe.

Last, if EE was suffering from a lack of capital, it was only because of "so-called supporters" of the game, saw fit to bad-mouth and criticize EEs efforts, instead of being encouraging and buying the best miniatures rules' system on the market inspite of the editing and formatting errors.
If you shoot for the moon and miss, you are still among the stars.

Offline Stalker

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2006, 11:42:28 AM »
Now it seems to me that their target market has dropped to the ages of preteens and early teens.  I think they should leave them alone and let them learn to add and subtract first.

Come now, I hardly think that's fair. Perhaps I am an outlier but I have been playing WZ for over a decade and I started on the verge of teendom. Target market and actual market hardly mean a thing. That is especially relavent when you look at things like Star Wars or Doctor Who - or even the Wizard of Oz. They have giant international wizard of oz conventions every year and it's all adults. In short: Predjudice based on age is, like any broad predjudice, unjustified.

Yes but who were these "adults" when they were first introduced the Wizard of OZ?  Just like your other two examples, these adults grew up with the movies/TV show.  I am inclined to disagree.  Target audience means a lot.  Besides, have you ever tried to play a serious game against a pre-teen.
If you shoot for the moon and miss, you are still among the stars.

Offline kwegibu

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2006, 02:29:22 PM »
Yes but who were these "adults" when they were first introduced the Wizard of OZ?  Just like your other two examples, these adults grew up with the movies/TV show.  I am inclined to disagree.  Target audience means a lot.  Besides, have you ever tried to play a serious game against a pre-teen.

You do raise a valid point which does indeed refute my argument. I still think its a misconception that adults are so much more capable though, i have always known as many stupid adults as i have chidren. I've had managers who still had trouble with adding and subtracting well into their forties.  Age doesn't equate anything but the passage of time. Anytime anything to do with age restrictions/guidelines comes up it is bound to set me off.

Sorry for starting this tangent, as this line of debate is seriously off topic and i recognize my views are probably in the minority ;)

brook

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2006, 06:28:10 PM »
Brook

As civilized people I wish to disagree.  One can not (or at least should not) fault MikeE for coming to this forum and sharing the announcement as he did.  However, like an alcoholic mother-in-law on dialysis, he overstayed his welcome.  He continued to plug his new product and engage in unhealthy discussion.  This both disrespected UWZ fans and rubbed salt into the wound in our own house!

Second, EE is the one who put Warzone and Chronopia back on the map.  If it wasn't for EEs efforts, nobody would have ever been interested in making a movie and certainly, nobody would see the potential for profit in picking up the license for the MC Universe.

Last, if EE was suffering from a lack of capital, it was only because of "so-called supporters" of the game, saw fit to bad-mouth and criticize EEs efforts, instead of being encouraging and buying the best miniatures rules' system on the market inspite of the editing and formatting errors.
Quote

The issue that you pose about whether EE's enhancement of the license is an interesting one. 

I have purchased two UWZ box sets, a Chronopia book, numerous models that appear to be repackaged models from target.  Personally, I was glad to purchase them.  I may be a "so-called supporter."  I would have ran to the store to purchase the Mars or Venus supplements and would have bought the models that were featured in the supplements.  It's just that the supplements did not come.

I don't think EE did anything significant to enhance the viability of a MC movie, and therefore shouldn't be credited with it.  It is hard to believe that the UWZ rule book made a MC movie possible.   A starship troopers movie didn't appear until how many decades after Heinlen released his book.  I am not suggesting that UWZ hurt the movie's chances, but I just don't think it helped.  How many retailers were listed on EE's website.  I think the movie would be done with or without EE, just because the idea was circulating for a while.

The lack of capital is a problem that creates trouble for a tremendous amount of new companies.  Its a fact of life.  You have to pay the staff.  Unfortunately, the game business is really a niche business area.  However, look around the industry standards have improved dramatically in the last few years.  Hard bound books, unbelievable models, and very good customer service are not the exception anymore.  Great White Games (the company that produced deadlands) had to stop and re-adjust its production, because people just were not buying anything but full color books.  All of these items add to the cost.

Gamers have come to expect and demand excellence, and quite frankly, they deserve it.   After all this is America, and it's everyone's right to complain.  In 2006, it appears that the money follows production quality and excellence.

As for Mike E, he was trying to offer an invitation.  I think people are little sensitive right now, and he got sucked into a debate.  That is easy enough to do.   And, its understandable that people are sensitive.  Ultimately, the whole Mike E discourse is without a lot of lasting meaning.  FFG has the license, and I don't want to meet your mother in law(she sounds tough).

Your points are well taken though.

I was just wondering who owns the rights to the game mechanics (dark symetry system).   Is that owned by EE or by Paradox.  Why couldn't EE just produce a new rule set.  Except that both of their pots are busted.

Finally, let nothing I said here detract from your comments or opinion.  I find the whole issue sad.  After all, for some people it was just a game, for others it was their livelihood.  I would like to see the rule system live on and be well supported.

Offline Daikoku

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games will produce MC CMG
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2006, 01:53:20 AM »
Well, I looked at the 'concept' packaging and regardless of what's been stated here it sure LOOKS like WZ redone in clicks to me.

I've never been one to complain about companies who charge a fair price for a decent product.  I realize they need to make money to stay in business and develop new product.   But from the begining of the 'Collectable XXXX Game' paradigm I've been wary of it.  The forced 'retiring' of cards/models that I've plunked my hard earned coin down for coupled with the need to purchase more and more and more of them to stay 'competetive' has made me balk and keeps me away.  As for simplified rulesets they really don't bug me much, I still find GO MOKU a challenge and the rules there are about as simple as you can get.  But no matter how simple or complex the ruleset with a collectable game, there will always be that guy with the 'ultra rare' version of Wolverine(tm) that so utterly "pwns" (computer power gamer lingo) the board that no set of tactics will possibly beat him.  That's why I hate collectible gaming so much and it's why I won't buy this or any other CXG.

I have everything I need to play UWZ for as long as I can get anyone to play it with me.  I can always...ALWAYS...find a suitable proxy out there if my minis ever get so worn I can't play with them.  And of course I can always press them into service as proxies themselves for other wargames.  I've said it before...this isn't the first wargame I've had go belly up on me, I still have the rules and lead from that game and sometimes get a game of it together too.

In short I don't wish FFG ill, but don't come here (hiding behind your 'volunteer' status) and p33 down my back and tell me it's raining.  I can smell what you're sellin from a mile away and it's not shineola. 



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