Author Topic: REVISED FLYING RULES FROM CERULEAN MISTS  (Read 27466 times)

Offline Firstborn

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Re: REVISED FLYING RULES FROM CERULEAN MISTS
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2005, 09:13:11 PM »
But is this not the same as trample?

You can not defend yourself against a trampling model, except diving for cover...

Unles you have other models on wait around which may charge the trampling model (from the side), same as with the swoop attack.

This is why I asked whether you may dive for cover as a reaction to a swoop attack.


To my embarassement, I just reread the rule, it says that you may dive for cover, doh! ::)

So imo it is the same thing as with trample, you may only avoid the attack or you have to have other models accompanying your RK...

Do you have to face the model you swoop attack like the trample attack or can you turn and attack like on a charge?

Otherwise a model with 3 AC could swoop attack with all three actions, this is could be too much...


Marc,

It IS NOT the same as tramble. A model that is trampling will be vulerable after the tramble. If the model being trampled over survives, it could charge into close combat.

If the new swoop rule allows the flyer to make continuous swoop attacked, the model being attacked would not be able to retaliate.

We still need an official explanation from Thom on this extremely technical rule.
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wes007

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Re: REVISED FLYING RULES FROM CERULEAN MISTS
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2005, 03:19:06 PM »
The allowing of a template weapon by models that are flying without being reached by melee troops is very bad idea.
1. There is no hit roll needed for templates in affect. So if you have soulflayer and manage to off the the other sides missile troops and they happen to have no flying troops (IE FIRSTBORN) the game is over the soul flayer wins by default. I go on wait to dive for cover soulflayer just keeps breathing who wins? So much for strategy GEE wonder what the devout will field against non flying races now hard decision. Secondly as fast as flying models move it is very easy to pick off one missle troop warband or individual and then take off again.

2. IF SWOOPING it should amend to read if you fumble with swoop you take crashing damage and must spend an action to stand up.

3. SERIOUSLY think about templates and flying. Rule should read if they chose to breathe flame, vapors, ice what have you then they are close enough for models to take jab attacks at them from wait no charge bonus move into base to base then attack at an additional minus 2 for the hovering nearly out reach while breathing flame. This game isnt warzone (nearly everyone has rifles or guns) with range template weapons being totally different by allowing templates with impunity and invulnerablity from flying everyone should give up non flying races or play underground only.
4. Another rule possiblity you must roll to hit with airborne using rc (Flying models with templates) If you fumble u breathe on your own model. IF you miss the attack misses all models as it was badly timed.
5. If you going to adhere to template weapons attacking from air with immunity then elminate the 40 percent of  missile warband requirement, also limit flying models to one type or unit per side peroid. This game is like chess with dice by putting templates in the air you going back to he/she who buys the cheesiest army wins by default.


If you disagree try the following set up:
1 first born chronomancer with set back, accelerate, and second chance
1 first born repulsar knight
5 firstborn long bow men
5 swordsmen
5 mace men

Devout
8 risen archers any type
1 necromancer any spells up to 40 pts
1 Soulflayer
5 swordsmen
5 greatswordsmen

All you have to do is elminate the first born long bow men keep your Soulflayer alive and you won the game all the rest of the "average" firstborn army is gone! And gee since the soul flayer can dive and climb like it wasnt 4 to 8 tons in weight that wont be hard. Oh wait we get the spell that works half the time to see the other persons army list. TO BAD that with the army restrictions the way they are it wont matter!

Lets see soulflayer in Devout army on ground is hard enough but you have chance. Flying bale fire model with range advantage with experienced players its over cards not need just see who dies first the longbow men or the Soulflayer the rest the game is pointless.

Lets see with 5 wounds size 5 with armor 22 versus 5 long bowmen with longbows damage 7 medium range.

Oh thats right lets see what happens when you give the chronomancer wither at its point cost one time use with a 4 actions Soulfayer (seen that one before by inexperinced firstborn player) you pray for a 20!!!!

The odds slightly improve versus crossbowmen till you add in the average devout archers on their side!!!
It's a no brainer every devout outside army will field soulflayers if they want sure win. Elves with dragonbane and archers might have chance.

I challenge any of you to try it with simlar force list against the devout with a ranged flying template! It might take the devout 1 to 2 game sessions to figure out the way to use it but after that its a no brainer.  Might as well give dragonbane flying breath weapons now to.

While you are at it you need to change the Sons of Kronos only defense against something like that the spell Gust of Wind make it force flying units to the ground for one turn. Other wise their only chance is they took cursed sling stones.....


Overall swooping attacks are OK they can be dealt with.

Flamerthrowers from air with 40 percent missile troop restriction with some armies with no flyers way chessy. If you going to add that rule give every race air borne unit of some kind to deal with the new threat and/or new spells that can ground flyers ( NOT JUST MOVE THEM BUT GROUND THEM) for one full set of actions or for the remainder of the turn) that puts some element of strategy back into the game. Its proven fact in war when one side controls the air 100 percent they are 75 to 90 percent likely to win any open engangement just from air superiorty alone.

Lets see theres a Soulflayer terrozing the western  borders of the Firstborn killing all the knights from the air what would the ONE KING do send about 2,000 crossbowmen with their crossbows concealed beneath firstborn cloaks so they look like knights. OR send 3 chronomancers 2 with wither and all with second chance and accelerate, so they can get the hell out dodge when the demon hag goes berzerk!!!!

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: REVISED FLYING RULES FROM CERULEAN MISTS
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2005, 06:44:59 AM »
Sounds like you really tested out this rule!  I haven't yet ( I'm almost done putting my Soul Flayer together), but just from reading your post I've been thinking about the template weapon and flyers. 

I agree with you that Chronopia is like chess with dice.  I'd like to see it stay this way, where no one unit/model unbalances things.  I will have to try your suggestion and see for myself, but I'm guessing that I'll agree with you about the Soul Flayer. 

Cheers.
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wes007

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Re: REVISED FLYING RULES FROM CERULEAN MISTS
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2005, 02:01:10 PM »
Needs to be some kind balance to templates and flying is all I am saying. Chronomancers and other units are limited in the rules, but templates from air needs some kind of limitation. As it stand Soulflayers landing to breathe is fair. Letting them fly and breathe might add more realism to the game, but breaks the game balance badly.

The point is giving large flying models with heavy armor with fast moves a airborne template badly unhinges the game.  It's much like the first editions rules which allowed chronomancers to interrupt give orders then have their unit go. It was outlawed and rightfully so....

Try playtesting the devout force hiding behind risen archers with soulflayers staying hidden or high airborne till its time to move out and end the other sides missle troops. Once u playtest it with several armies you will see the problem then with it.

Offline Firstborn

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Re: REVISED FLYING RULES FROM CERULEAN MISTS
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2005, 10:15:44 AM »
Needs to be some kind balance to templates and flying is all I am saying. Chronomancers and other units are limited in the rules, but templates from air needs some kind of limitation. As it stand Soulflayers landing to breathe is fair. Letting them fly and breathe might add more realism to the game, but breaks the game balance badly.

The point is giving large flying models with heavy armor with fast moves a airborne template badly unhinges the game.  It's much like the first editions rules which allowed chronomancers to interrupt give orders then have their unit go. It was outlawed and rightfully so....

Try playtesting the devout force hiding behind risen archers with soulflayers staying hidden or high airborne till its time to move out and end the other sides missle troops. Once u playtest it with several armies you will see the problem then with it.

Wes007,

This is part of the reason I ALWAYS play with a turn limit.

My games normally last 6 turns. This really only becomes an issue if you are playing an unlimited turn game, which I never recommend doing.
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Offline fuko

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Re: REVISED FLYING RULES FROM CERULEAN MISTS
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2005, 05:50:45 AM »
Wes007
But as I read this rule template is shorter if SF is in air -1 inch for each inch it is above ground (and this template is 4" long). According to rules you can also attack model in the air- models with size 2 can attack SF if it flys up to 3 inches, and those with polearms (Iron Guard, Repulsar Knight), have 1" more reach. So if SF is going to bale flame such models they can attack her. Second - take more shooting units - crossbowmen and bowmen + Repulsar Marksman (and R.Knight to improve those units RC) and simply shoot it down. If your enemy fields archers field also some Iron Guard in shield wall to protect your shoting units (they will be still able to shoot at SF while it flyes shooting over IG heads)