Author Topic: Dwarves second edition too weak?  (Read 17644 times)

Offline kvaerne

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Dwarves second edition too weak?
« on: September 30, 2013, 05:48:12 AM »
I suspect that this game is not balanced.   :-[
 In my group of friends, Dwarves always lose against the Devout.  Are very weak.  >:(
Anyone who uses them, the result does not change.
Wrong to use them?  ???
Can you tell me an army of Dwarves from 750 pt. to beat the devout?
thank you.

Offline Raga

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 07:53:12 AM »
Can You give an usual setup for the Devout?
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Offline Delthos

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 01:31:41 PM »
It would also help to tell us what you use against them and what forces you have available to use.

Offline kvaerne

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 01:15:03 AM »

Main problem are:
 Possession against totem ( LD 10  :'( ).
Dread against Totem ( LD 10  :'( ).
Skeletons immune throwing weapons along with jackal Crossbowmen who shoot on my dwarves.

Unnamed750 Pts  -   Devout Army

1 Warped Lord @ 111 Pts
     Staff of Summoning
     Vortex [10]
     Possession [17]
     Dark Ones Fury [20]

1 Soulflayer @ 137 Pts
     2 Bone Cleavers

1 Risen Skeletal Warriors @ 152 Pts

     8 Stygian Risen Warriors @ [152] Pts
          Talon Sword; Shield

6 Jackal Clan Crossbowmen @ 198 Pts
     Leader; Dagger; Heavy Crossbow

     1 Leader @ [30] Pts
          Dagger; Heavy Crossbow

2 Dusk Realm Warriors @ 76 Pts
     Dark Sword; Shield

2 Dusk Realm Warriors @ 76 Pts
     Dark Sword; Shield

Total Army Cost: 750

I have all of the dwarves, my favorites are Dark tusk, but I play all the clans.

Help me please.

Offline Raga

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 08:08:27 AM »
I just Don't understand what is your problem ;)

Make your army with:
Fire Thrower Team (against risen),
Impaler against (Soulflyer and Warped Lord)
You can add one squad of Vulture Crossbowmen and fill the rest with Swordsmen and Mallet Warriors

If you play wisely to override target priorities and shoot from wait there should be no problem.
Let us drink to the power drink to the sound
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Drink to your brothers who are never to fall
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2013, 06:02:15 PM »
Wolf Clan!!   Desert Wolf Warriors, LD 14 against Dread.  Take a Scavenger to lead the squad.  Wolf Clan Keeper.  Some Wolf Clan Axemen.  You should be able to construct a force with these guys to take out the Soul Flayer and all the rest.   

The suggestion to take the Firethrower is pretty good, but the Soul Flayer can out flank it very easily, as can the Dusk Realm Warriors.  The Impaler can shoot anything on the board, but I would go with numbers.  It's too easy to 20 out with a Totem, or Individual.  A squad of Desert Wolf Warriors with Group Attack, and 4 inch move, will do the trick against them.
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Offline kvaerne

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2013, 11:28:26 PM »

Translated with Google, sorry for the mistakes  :-[

MMMmmmmmhhh ???   Impaler and Vulture Crossbowmen . I believe useless against skeletons, and those who stand behind them.

Page 71 of the manual:
'' It has already been stated that you cannot fire through enemy troop.''
As you can hit Jackal Clan or Warped ? I realized I wrong rules of priority target?  ???

Firethrower - MV 2 inch - AC 2 . too slow. the Jackal Clan Crossbowmen kill him before approaching.
if it falls into Possession, destroys the Swordsmen and Mallet Warriors . ;D

Desert Wolf Warriors are interesting but too expensive, take away all points.

You play with the dwarves? You can write a list of 750 pt. I use it the next time you play.

Offline Raga

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2013, 12:28:08 AM »
Page 71 of the manual:
'' It has already been stated that you cannot fire through enemy troop.''
As you can hit Jackal Clan or Warped ? I realized I wrong rules of priority target?



I usually play first edition and I never use Totems against the Devout.
The main difference is that You cannot mix clans easly in 2nd edition and some stats are changed.


Fire Thrower is a defensive weapon - not used for charging! Use waiting and wait for them to approach.
Impaler can kill anything from enormous range - use two of them and using target proprity  you can easly kill Soulflayer (Soulflayer is very large so can be shot even if behind skeletons).
Warped Lord and possesion -  I imagine that he hides behind the skeletons (let him hide and ignore him - explained blelow)
Warped lord has 50% to succesfully cast possesion (PW 15 - level 5 = 10, if you throw out totems from your army and have average 13 LD you have 13-5 = 8 to defend so You have only 50% * 60% = 30% chances to be possesed!)
Just keep Impalers not in LOS of themselves in case of one is possesed so they cannot shoot to each other. Use them as first in turn (You cannot posses the model that was already activated)

Kill everything you can with Impalers (and crossbowmen if you take them) and just wait for them to come of finish the rest.

If you have further questions go ahead and ask :)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 01:36:52 AM by Raga »
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Offline kvaerne

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2013, 03:20:38 AM »
Thank you, but the topic title is'' Dwarves second edition too weak? ''  I was referring to the edition '' Chronopia: War in the Eternal Realm''
In the first edition of Chronopia, the dwarves are much more powerful, fast, armored, horned ones Totem has LD 16.
In Chronopia: War in the Eternal Realm, all Totem have  LD 10. Level possession. 5. The Totem must roll 5 to save.
The two editions are very different for me. For this reason I ask you '' how you fight against the Devotees '' in the second edition ?
Thanks for the answers.

Offline Raga

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2013, 03:29:05 AM »
Thank you, but the topic title is'' Dwarves second edition too weak? ''  I was referring to the edition '' Chronopia: War in the Eternal Realm''
In the first edition of Chronopia, the dwarves are much more powerful, fast, armored, horned ones Totem has LD 16.
In Chronopia: War in the Eternal Realm, all Totem have  LD 10. Level possession. 5. The Totem must roll 5 to save.
The two editions are very different for me. For this reason I ask you '' how you fight against the Devotees '' in the second edition ?
Thanks for the answers.

I have just given you the answer in my last post as well as the information thet I USUALLY play 1st edition.
Everything is from the 2nd edition perspective - I have 2nd edition rulebook in front of my eyes in the moment.

Yes I know that Totem has LD 10 and it still has 62% chances to resist the possesion.
Statistically 2 possesions out of 3 fail, so it is not so bad. If you still don't like it, just stop using totems vs Devout.

... but I would go with numbers.  It's too easy to 20 out with a Totem, or Individual.  A squad of Desert Wolf Warriors with Group Attack, and 4 inch move, will do the trick against them.

Keep in mind that the rest of the team are Jackal Crosbowmen and Warped Lord with Vortex. Going with numbers could be fatal.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 04:21:17 AM by Raga »
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Offline kvaerne

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2013, 11:49:54 PM »
No one has a list of 750 pt. Dwarves competitive against the Devout  ???

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2013, 11:08:38 AM »
I'll have one on Monday for you.
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 05:55:00 PM »
Scavenger 72
Scavenger 72
5 Wolf Clan Axemen + Leader 242
8 Desert Wolf Warriors  360
Total is 746

Check my math against the FAQ for points costs. The Scavengers will give each unit a Fear/Dread save at 15 LD.  You need to move with terrain to avoid getting shot by the Jackals, but you have 4 inch movement with the Desert Wolves to get there and hit them with Killing Stroke and Group Attack.

I love the Wolf Clan because you need some finesse to play them.  Try it and see how you do.  Don't forget the movement is 3 for the Axemen, and 4 for the Wolves!! 
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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Offline kvaerne

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2013, 09:26:19 PM »
I'll try your list in the next game.
Two things worry me:
 Have 4-band compared to 6 of the Devoute.
 Lack of a powerful hero.
List very interesting, I have to try it in a field with a lot of cover.
Soon the story result  ;D

Offline Raga

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Re: Dwarves second edition too weak?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2013, 11:51:30 PM »
I would personally try something like this:

1x FireThrower Team = 63
2x Vulture Legion = 472 (10 legionnaires, 4 gauntlets, 2 leaders total)
1x Talon Lord = 64
2x Impaler = 144

Total: 743
Let us drink to the power drink to the sound
Thunder and metal are shaking the ground
Drink to your brothers who are never to fall
We're brothers of metal here in the hall