Author Topic: New Warzone (merged thread)  (Read 339016 times)

Offline rob_alderman

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #570 on: March 16, 2013, 11:45:31 AM »
Different rules. Also, the Immortal is an independent, named character. The Everassur is not exclusive, you will be able to field more than one.

Imagine, the Immortal as a 'Character' and the Everassur as a 'Hero'. Heroes can be generic.

The Immortal is armed in a similar way to the Everassur, so if you prefer the model and rules for the Everassur, and your opponent is happy, then you can use it as a proxy.

Offline Grinder

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #571 on: March 16, 2013, 10:17:24 PM »
A new mask option for the rangers


Offline rob_alderman

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #572 on: March 17, 2013, 12:04:30 AM »
That's awesome!

Offline Niart Gunn

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #573 on: March 17, 2013, 03:29:20 AM »
The new Venusian Ranger Mask is a LOT better than the first one (which made them look really cybertronic).

I cannot stress enough how much I agree with Oakwolf tho. It kinda feels like Cybertronic just got the shaft with all the vastly different redesigns. While Cybertronic may have had some issues with a unified kind of look it's not to the extent some people are making it out to be, and the Everasseur and Machinators just don't look Cybertronic at all, more like Dark Legion if anything really. I have no clue who came up with those Dalek-bumps for Cybertronic armor, but they're exactly that: Dalek bumps, and don't fit the clean, polished look of Cybertronic from 1st and 2nd edition. This is not Doctor Who afterall. It's just too much of a steampunky there in general, while, at least in my opinion, Cybertronic can be allowed to look much more clean and futuristic than the rest of the factions.

And I said it a few times before, and the Chasseurs are probably more or less finished as they are, but please, PLEASE Prodos, bring the AR-3000 design back (and the Cybertronic weapon designs in general, which was about the most unified part about the faction in the past). They're just really missing, and the new Cybertronic ARs look too much like a child's plaything.

I also agree with Oakwolf that the Eradicator is the best Cybertronic design by far, mostly because everything that's important has been kept in line with the old model (as opposed to the new Cuirassier). The only thing I don't like about it is that the legs seem kind of edgy and could do with a round front.

TL;DR: Get rid of the ****ty bumps and bring back old Cybertronic weapon designs.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 10:19:02 AM by Niart Gunn »

Offline brynolf

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #574 on: March 17, 2013, 07:14:20 AM »
I like the new Cybertronic look. It's more like Bergting's darker illustrations and less like Bonner's shiny chrome. It's not like Prodos took the design right out of the blue.

But yes, I wouldn't mind the AR-3000. Those were iconic!


Offline Grinder

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #576 on: March 17, 2013, 08:40:53 AM »
Thank you for bringing Warzone into the twenty-first century!

Offline Niart Gunn

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #577 on: March 17, 2013, 09:05:15 AM »
I like the new Cybertronic look. It's more like Bergting's darker illustrations and less like Bonner's shiny chrome. It's not like Prodos took the design right out of the blue.

But yes, I wouldn't mind the AR-3000. Those were iconic!

Except it isn't, really. For one thing, there's just not that many illustrations of Cybers made by Bergting, and second, they are just that, illustrations. This one here for example may look darker, dirtier than Bonner's "shiny chrome" as you call it, but that's just because it's a black+white sketch which will just naturally look that way. If you look at colored illustrations by Bergting like this one, or this one. You'll notice that they are actually much closer to Bonners designs than the new Prodos ones in terms of shapes and structures. In addition to that, it's not really only the illustrations which determine the style of a faction, but even moreso the miniatures, which in the past just always were that Bonner style "shiny chrome". The deciding factor here is for me if the new minis would look fitting next to the old ones (even if they were lacking), which just isn't the case with Cybertronic.
I mean, take a close look at the Everasseur (which is a nice model on it's own) and tell me where the Cybertronic is, Bergting, Bonner or whatever style. Can you honestly tell me that this design wasn't taken out of the blue?


As to Dr. Diana: I really, really dislike her robot-arm saw&guns thingies. First, it looks very unbalancing, and second, it just evokes memories of GW Techmarines too much. Also, what the hell is she gonna do with that drill-thing on her lower right robot arm? Why wouldn't she use the one arm that can actually grab things on the side where she doesn't have a hand? What use is a giant circular saw when repairing/healing stuff? And I have no idea what the last arm is supposed to be...
In the end, I do kinda like the mini, but would most likely just get rid of her robot arms.


Edit: I just noticed the absence of all Cybertronic logos etc. I really hope that's gonna be revised and the units actually get the logo of their corps in various places, because that already goes a long way in making Warzone Warzone-y.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 09:15:07 AM by Niart Gunn »

Offline Francesco

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #578 on: March 17, 2013, 09:29:27 AM »
This is another piece I sculpted for Prodos

Offline Topkick

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #579 on: March 17, 2013, 09:56:33 AM »
Not a bad sculpt but my first thought when I saw it was 40K female techpriest.....I would prefer something less 40K. Perhaps her posed as a Dalek or her lower body as a treaded or multiwheeled ATV incorporating a work area and tool boxes...or more like her original Warzone sculpt - a simple tech with perhaps some bionics or a robotic multi-tool arm.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 10:01:16 AM by Topkick »
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Offline Durandal

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #580 on: March 17, 2013, 10:47:42 AM »
Except it isn't, really. For one thing, there's just not that many illustrations of Cybers made by Bergting, and second, they are just that, illustrations. This one here for example may look darker, dirtier than Bonner's "shiny chrome" as you call it, but that's just because it's a black+white sketch which will just naturally look that way. If you look at colored illustrations by Bergting like this one, or this one. You'll notice that they are actually much closer to Bonners designs than the new Prodos ones in terms of shapes and structures.

Even looking at your coloured Bergting selections, you can already see the lumpier armour, the tubing, less emphasis on the shine and more grit.  The 19th Silent especially (the Surveiler is probably the only one that evokes Bonner a bit more).  But not seeing anything shiny or Bonner-esque in the 19th.  The corrugated armour and tubes put it right in the industrial-style wheelhouse for me.  It even has that asymmetric feeling you get from the Everasseur.  But for me the Everasseur evokes a lot of this image:



That piece right there is full of grit and industrial styling.  When I look at the painted Everasseur, I see that picture above evoked in its lines.  But even stuff like the 19th Silent, that departed pretty heavily from Bonner's style can be seen in there as well.  It even has some of the more dieselpunk elements of the 2nd Edition Machinators in there (like the smokestack).  The Everasseur is a neat little mashup of old Cybertronic design ethos (which makes sense, since its background is basically a cobbled together frankenmech).


Quote
In addition to that, it's not really only the illustrations which determine the style of a faction, but even moreso the miniatures, which in the past just always were that Bonner style "shiny chrome". The deciding factor here is for me if the new minis would look fitting next to the old ones (even if they were lacking), which just isn't the case with Cybertronic.

I actually think it is more important the Cybertronic line fits next to itself, personally.  The old miniatures are the old miniatures, they have some nostalgic value and I may still use them in the coming edition.  But the Cybertronic line of the day didn't even fit in with itself.  You had units trying to cop Bonner's style and failing (Vince, Attila III), you had units doing their own thing and never showing up in the actual artwork (the original Chasseur minis) and then you had the few 2nd Edition resculpts which completely changed the tone and the feel of Cybertronic (smoke-stacks on the new Machinators, the new-era Chasseur).

To me, it is better that Prodos use this reboot as a time to allow them to unify armies that had minis that didn't even look right sitting next to their own faction.  And they can evoke the lines of old by incorporating bits and pieces from all of Cybertronic's past aesthetic choices.  From Bonner's shiny-punk, to the black and white illos of Peter Bergting and Guilaume Fournier, the minis that never had artwork depicting them (such as the first Chasseur), the colour works of Bergting and everything in between.  So long as the NuCyber stuff has a unified look and feel, I could care less how my old minis look next to it; half the time, they didn't even look good next to each other.

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I mean, take a close look at the Everasseur (which is a nice model on it's own) and tell me where the Cybertronic is, Bergting, Bonner or whatever style. Can you honestly tell me that this design wasn't taken out of the blue?

*takes a close look*

Oh look, there are some Cybertronic styles, and oh-my looking at the Bertingness™ of that bit!

*does cub scout salute*

I can honestly say those design aesthetics don't look out of the blue to me.

Isn't taste and opinion on aesthetic leanings a weird thing?  Oh well, they already gave you guys the Immortal, so can we drop hating on the Everasseur already?  That seems so February 2013 now.  :P
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 10:50:00 AM by Durandal »

Offline Niart Gunn

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #581 on: March 17, 2013, 11:58:20 AM »
I really don't want to argue the whole Bonner vs Bergting thing, and I actually don't think they condradict each other as much as people make them out to. The thing is, their (painting) styles are very different but they still don't really show a different kind of Cybertronic imo. Looking at your Bergtinger pic for example, the very first thing I notice is that it is quite obviously a Cuirassier in construction/maintenance (see the head armor, wires connected to the eye) and thus isn't an indicator of how a battleready cybertronic unit should look. This one, finished, would be very close to Bonners Cuirassier tbh. The difference is mostly that Bergtinger uses a much more rough, comic-y style of painting as opposed to Bonners almost very detailed, almost hyperrealistic way of painting.

I agree that the very most important thing is that the units fit next to each other, but I honestly think that the few greens that can be found of 19th Silents or the Surveiler you can actually buy fit a whole lot better with the 2nd edition Chasseurs, Shock Troops, Attilas, Scorpions and whatnot which were the face of Cybertronic for most of it's time, than the Everasseur fits with the Prodos Attila or even Immortal. I am seriously not hating on it, it's a nice model, but it just seems like it would fit better with Wyrd or something of the ilk.

Obviously it comes down to taste and aesthetics, which are always subjective, but that won't stop me from expressing my opinion.
And I really still don't get where you see the Cybertronic in the Everasseur, but yeah, taste and aesthetics...

And I'm only a scrubby Cybertronic lover that started with 2nd edition afterall v0v
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 12:00:08 PM by Niart Gunn »

Offline micmellon

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #582 on: March 17, 2013, 12:29:13 PM »
Different rules. Also, the Immortal is an independent, named character. The Everassur is not exclusive, you will be able to field more than one.

Imagine, the Immortal as a 'Character' and the Everassur as a 'Hero'. Heroes can be generic.

The Immortal is armed in a similar way to the Everassur, so if you prefer the model and rules for the Everassur, and your opponent is happy, then you can use it as a proxy.

Should it be not the other way around? You need at least one or more Immortals to build an Everasseur. At least they mentioned the E is made from the rest(s) of  I(s). So the E should be a personality and the I should be a normal individual.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #583 on: March 17, 2013, 12:33:54 PM »



Diana looks great! The utility rucksack is a nice add on!
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Offline Grinder

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Re: New Warzone (merged thread)
« Reply #584 on: March 17, 2013, 01:14:51 PM »