New Warzone (merged thread)

[micmellon]

Regarding the Venusian Rangers.

Why do they have no thigh armor?
Even the simple Brotherhood Regulars have them. 

Anyway looks the armor of the Rangers to weak in my opinion.
Bauhaus was in the 1st Edition always the army with the highest armor values but in this edition no chance.
There are too many gaps in the armor for a real Bauhaus feeling.

I have the feeling that the new Bauhaus design looks too realistic and not MC typical enough to convince me.

How weak will be the armor of Mishima? Mishima had in the past the weakest armor but the highest movement. If Bauhaus makes the standard they have to show up with almost no armor at all.

Don’t get me wrong. I like most designs and the Vulcan and the Heroine are smashing!
I have only doubts about Bauhaus. That the design concept for Bauhaus miss what Bauhaus should be.

And just what teases me, too. The Brotherhood units and the new Cybertronic Everasseur are able to wear real shoulderpads so why should a Venusian Ranger not get nice shoulder pads, too?

[micmellon]

How is going with Armoured Chasseurs, the Necromutants squad, Dr Diana, Blessed Vestal Laura, Goltgatha, and Max Steiner?
Do you have already any concepts ready for a preview?

[Prodos]

Micmellon, as soon as they hit the KS stretched goal they went into 3d design! We should be in a position to share shortly.

I'm looking at the old 'plastic' Bauhaus sergeant at the moment, his armour positioning seems fairly similar to the new concept designs we have released. But remember these images are only concept, version 2 if you like the minis will be based on them, but not identical. I hope that helps

Frazetta, you will still be able to use your old models with the new rules, or vice versa! Or even old with old or new with new! Sorry you aren't liking the new designs!

The beta basic rules will be released at midnight tonight GMT UK time on Kickstarter in English in PDF format! All you will need is 12 or so minis per side, a tape measure, a D20, and some scissors

[joshuaslater]

We can use our old models, the new models, the old rules, the new rules!!   Kings to you Prodos, and Rob, for the respect you've shown us old timers here. 

[Durandal]

Regarding the Venusian Rangers.

Why do they have no thigh armor?
Even the simple Brotherhood Regulars have them. 

Oddly the art on the KS page has them without the armour, but the individual unit art we've seen has them with thigh armour and a codpiece.  Same goes for the Hussar (the difference between the ones used in the starter set and those in the individual box).  My guess is they will be fully armoured as we have seen in other pieces of concept art.

[joshuaslater]

In fairness, some of the art has been near stick figure for the poses, and changes are made from feedback.  I'm liking the way Prodos is responding to the fans.  Keep making suggestions to get the look you hope for, but understand you may not get all the ones you want.

[luckyone]

We can use our old models, the new models, the old rules, the new rules!!   Kings to you Prodos, and Rob, for the respect you've shown us old timers here. 

Seconded

[micmellon]

Thank you Prodos!

I looking forward to all new previews!

[MadBrad]

In fairness, some of the art has been near stick figure for the poses, and changes are made from feedback.  I'm liking the way Prodos is responding to the fans.  Keep making suggestions to get the look you hope for, but understand you may not get all the ones you want.

Josh, you have hit the nail on the head.   Prodos put up the money, assembled the resources, and are taking the business risk.   If they decide on something that I personally do not like, it is not my place to belabour them over whatever precieved mistake I think they are making.  

Plus, the vast majority of what they have done so far is great work, and they've listened to the fan base on several figs.  

I'm just thrilled that we will all get to see a new version of the game and setting we all love get another shot!

[rob_alderman]

Nope. 

But they do have these.








Bauhaus piccies coming tomorrow.

Keep in mind, this is all done in real time. As they have hit target, they show you whatever they can as soon as it's a)done and b) okayed by Paradox to show to the public.

[Prodos]

Beta Rules :
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9SxXmqAnzM-QUlKYjhnWnFsR28/edit?usp=sharing
Beta Cards:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9SxXmqAnzM-blNkQmJ0eGhSZG8/edit?usp=sharing

[LAWwaldo]

Well the Beta rules kinda ruined it for me.  Two actions and you cannot take the same action twice.  No, just no.  Three Actions is what made Warzone.  It gave the game great tactical flexibility and it's why I loved it as a Skirmish game.  I have no gripes about the new art direction (most of it I love), and I appreciate the use of cards in the game (you could go some interesting places with this), but really when you dumb down the CORE mechanic of the game then I just feel like the game has been dumbed down to every other miniature game out there.  Move and shoot?  Shoot or Move?  Yes, I understand that this makes the game a lot faster.  It also allows for larger scales games.  However, for me I am just not looking for that. when I see the title Warzone attached to a game that I dearly want to love.

[Durandal]

Meh, I was never married to the number of actions, just that there was an action point mechanic.  Sounds like most of the same gripes the Excelsior weathered when they reduced the standard amount of actions in Chronopia, and I think it turned out fairly well.

When I was still actively playing Warzone there was certainly a lot of people who weren't sure if three actions were ideal.  And even a few who weren't 100% on board with being able to double/triple-tap shooting actions and the like.  In a lot of cases the aim action was never taken because taking two shots was almost always better.  Now that you can't just continually blaze away the aim action becomes important again.

It still allows flexibility like shoot-move, move-shoot, shoot-hide, aim-shoot, etc.

And of course, it is still model-by-model activation (the real important part of Warzone was that a squad could multi-task).

Three actions and free-form expenditure just never seemed like a sacred cow of the game to me any more than four-action heroes were from 1st Edition.  To me, model-by-model and free order in which actions are taken is far more important.

Either way, we can hopefully avoid using terms like "dumbed-down" as they are more inflammatory than they need to be.  You don't like the change, that doesn't mean it is any dumber, that means you don't like it.  Which is cool by me.  But I like the new direction of the action system.  It keeps the important tactical-timing factor in squad activation without any of the actions feeling useless or extraneous (like aim tended to be in the face of double and triple fire).

That said, I'm wondering if this is version has had more cut out of it to facilitate testing.  Direct question to Prodos, will their be a return of the Warzone reaction mechanics?  That is a more important factor for me than almost anything.  Warzone's reaction mechanics were always an integral part to me, but I can see why a beta-test would leave them out in the early stages, since they created a lot of complex interactions.  But I definitely hope they stick around in some form.

[warzoneD]

I think there's some interesting ideas here, but I have to admit the card mechanic isn't my cup of tea.  Still going to give it a try-- happy to prove myself wrong if the game works overall.

[Durandal]

I can see how it would put some people off (I'm adoring it personally), but the upside is that it seems to be easy to decouple as well.  The only bit you really need to keep is the starting resources (easy to run as a pool of refreshing chits each game turn) to activate hero abilities (if you so desire, I really like that part myself, very pulpy and cinematic).

The cards themselves seem to be easy enough to ignore.  Each player gets a refreshing pool of three points (representing the three starting resources) and those can be used to activate abilities on units.  No need to muck about with deck-building if you are so inclined.

Might be a nice option to add in an appendix for those who are averse to card mechanics.

Though I can't wait to see the full range of cards and start playing around with different strategies and tactics.