Author Topic: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...  (Read 7415 times)

Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 09:21:51 AM »
(It would be good to have a conversion chart for Armour, CC and RC stats from 1st to 2nd edition Chronopia – Joshua?)
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 09:26:39 AM »
Also, I've gotta say, I love your concept art for the Firstborn Light Horsemen. You could also use the Firstborn Mounted Axeman for the conversion by cutting off the axe and giving him a sword and shield. Again less flashy without the cape, but the horse and fig would match the style and look of the army better.



I hadn´t thought of this, but yes! The Mounted Axe would make a good proxy. It would seem to be easier to convert than most, since the axe appears to be a separate mould piece. Good one!

I got two more mounted Firstborn units, the Outrider (a mounted crossbowman) and the Thane (a light mounted commander with a straightsword). I´ll post them in good order...
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 09:54:40 AM by Horned Owl »
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Offline Manic _Miner

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 11:38:02 AM »
 Liking these new units.

 Not sure about a mounted crossbowman.Would be really hard to re-load when riding.

Offline micmellon

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 12:12:59 PM »
I made some researching about mounted crossbow units. The problem to reload a crossbow on a horseback is a topic hotly discussed in some historical forums in Germany. I haven’t checked if the same discussion happens on some English sides, too.

Maybe it is interesting to know. In history mounted crossbow units existed. There are historical drawings and very few reports about them.
Overall the discussion in the forums are about if the crossbow units where fighting like dragoons (moving on horseback, fight on own legs) or if they were able to reload on horseback.
They could be used as scouts, hunters or maybe the crossbow was just a secondary weapon or the riding unit used the crossbow to make an initial attack and then changed to close combat weapons.

Anyway there should be a solution in a Fantasy world how to reload a crossbow on horseback  ;)
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 12:18:02 PM »
Weeeell..., the Firstborn crossbow is a repeating gadget. Similar to the Chinese (lever operated) zhuge-nu 諸葛弩, probably, which was actually used by cavalry. The Firstborn crossbow has a hopper-like magazine on top of its firing mechanism, and in Adrian Smith´s picture, the Crossbowman has two more magazines dangling from his belt. Rules-wise, the Crossbowmen have a similar rate of fire to the Longbowmen, which obviously wouldn´t be possible without some sort of quick-loading mechanism... and whatever happened to artistic license anyway?  :D

In his memoirs, Götz von Berlichingen (of "kiss my ass" fame) describes having a (standard European) crossbow hung from his saddle. He fired at one landsknecht, missed, mentions that he did not have time to reload from the saddle (which, it follows, must have been possible if somewhat awkward) and just threw the crossbow at the knecht´s head instead.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2012, 12:24:59 PM »
Looks like we have a solution  ;D
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2012, 12:28:12 PM »
Anyway, those are just suggestions. They worked in my campaign, which does not mean they will work for everyone else. If the idea of a mounted crossbowman is adverse to you, just leave him out of your games. Note that none of these units are in any way official.
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Offline Raga

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2012, 02:49:42 AM »
There are a few thing that I do not like about Ors Slavers:
They should not have 3 str (a strength of and Ogre) - they would be the strongest Orcs in the game and could throw their nets at the same range as Stygian Embalmed his spears.
Even Orc Assault Warriors have only 2 strength and common orc should have only 1 str.
Their attacks are a bit overpowered (9 dam + 3 str + group attack?) - slavers are not intended to kill. They should immobilize and capture their targets alive.

One last comment. I do not understand their -4 to break away modifier.
It is much easier to kill them than try to run away.

I would see them aremed with:

Mace/Scimtar
One handed weapon
CR   MX   RM   Dam
-   -   -   7

Hooked Spear
Polearm
CR   MX   RM   Dam
-   -   -   9* (special)

Net - as you described.

If Hooked spear penetrates the armor, it doeas not inflict wounds - it tripps models over (one action required to stand up.
Model tripped and tangled with a net must first break the net and then stand up.

Additional: size is a number of slavers required for a first attemt to trip/net a target (2 slavers are required to trip/net size 2 model, 3 are required to net/trip 3 size model)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:00:08 AM by Raga »
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 03:05:06 AM »
Like I mentioned before I don't play Chronopia but I love the setting and I take a look into the interesting topics.

Anyway Raga you should give the Slavers some option then to knock the opponent final out (opponent removed from game or for some rounds let them be inactive and easy to kill).
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Offline Raga

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 03:09:52 AM »
Micmellon:
Trip the model, and charge - Scimtar 7 dam + 1 str + charge - 10 dam.
Group attack - second model has 12 dam, third 14 dam, fourth 16 dam.
I think that is enough - or maybe an increase in squad size to 8 would be a good idea.

Remember that netted and tripped model looses 2 actions.
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2012, 05:51:29 AM »
Ah! Okay, this is how the Slavers worked in my scenarios:

I just realised that I upped their Strength from the usual 1 - 2 of the Orcs because I envisioned them to be like the Tippoo Sultan´s jettis in Cornwell´s book Sharpe´s Tiger – strongmen and fakirs who had spent their lives building up an impressive physique, who entertained the Sultan by bending iron bars and executed prisoners by driving nails into their skulls with their bare hands. Ogre Strength lies between 3 (Heavy Infantry) and 4 (Guard and Deathseekers). Personally I think it´s conceivable for an Orc "bodybuilder" to reach a tone similar to a weak Ogre. But I´m fine with the suggestion to cap their Strength at 2 – it won´t make a lasting difference to the style of the unit, after all.

The hooked spears are intended to catch runaway slaves. They are of little use except against panicked models trying to disengage and flee. Think of them as a "story element" – it´s there to add flavour to the model but will rarely ever crop up in play. We had a few scenarios – a slave revolt in a palace, Firstborn ambushing a slave train to free their brethren, a civilian hunt – where the spears actually came into their own. (In those scenarios, a "killed" model was actually supposed to be subdued, so there was no need for additional rules.)

As for tripping, that part is already amply played by the Nets. I don´t feel that there is need to duplicate or add to the Net´s effects by introducing a second way to hamper an enemy model. If the Slavers´ Strength of 3 stays in place, maybe it would be an option to lower the spears´ damage to 8 or even 7. They are slave-catchers, after all, not battle spears.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 06:01:28 AM by Horned Owl »
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2012, 06:47:43 AM »
Oh, please ignore my last post. I missed some details  ::)
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2012, 06:55:48 PM »
I'll see if I can get some stat lines done for 2nd edition.  It may take forever, but I'll do it.  I'm wondering now about what these sculpts would look like????
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Offline Raga

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2012, 02:23:20 AM »
The hooked spears are intended to catch runaway slaves. They are of little use except against panicked models trying to disengage and flee.

Panicked models automatically break away and give their opponents a free close combat attack, so it is still useless.

Additionally:
I advice to modify the Net rules from the Rulebook. What is the reason?
The Net throw is affected by an armor. A dwarf should not be more resistant to net than a ie. size 3 Abyssal Crawler which is much bigger and stronger!
Tangling should be avoided by a free break-away roll (instead of an armor roll) – just like the existing rules for breaking-away after being caught.
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Horned Owl´s house rule units. Not exactly official but...
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2012, 10:34:46 AM »
I advice to modify the Net rules from the Rulebook.

That would be worth a completely different thread. I went with the existing rules since everything else is asking for trouble without an established consensus between all the remaining Chronopia players.

For a different approach on how a Net works, one could look at the Swamp Goblin Webmasters in the Fallen Land supplement. One can assume that the nets used by the Swamp Goblins are smaller and less sturdy than the one thrown by the Troll.
"How was I supposed to know he was an unarmed man? His back was to me."