Author Topic: Questions about some UWZ Troops  (Read 2958 times)

Offline Pax

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Questions about some UWZ Troops
« on: July 09, 2012, 11:14:25 AM »
Right, when forging through the rulebook I find myself asking some questions when I find certain things that feels like they been left out (or removed). As I can't find the answers to all of them on the board I figured I would write them down as questions as I go.

Sea Lion Medic
His Medic skill is 3, the lowest in the army. It feels odd as it's a elite unit but the Grunt Medics have a better chance to fix you with a 4. Should not he at least be on par with the Grunts?

Free Marines
No one of the unit including the Gunnery Sergeat got the Unscrupulous SA. I know it was asked before and that it was removed but I can't get a clear on if the cost for the Free Marines are still correct?

Big Bob Watts
Former Free Marine, he ain't got either the Ambush (nor the Unscrupulous SA, which don't fit anyway but hey). Where they removed or should he have them?

Nathan R. Parrish
Former ACG, but no Guerilla Training. He lost the ability?

Mitch Hunter
While it's fluff the description mention that he can inspire people as only a good, honest man can do. No Inspire ability though which had fitted.

Sunset Striker Captain
Should have Ferocity according to this post.  It is not in the FAQ though.

I will probably find more as I work through the rest of the forces so expect me to post up a few more in this topic in a while... :)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 12:18:38 PM by Pax »

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 03:37:38 PM »
Right, when forging through the rulebook I find myself asking some questions when I find certain things that feels like they been left out (or removed). As I can't find the answers to all of them on the board I figured I would write them down as questions as I go.

Sea Lion Medic
His Medic skill is 3, the lowest in the army. It feels odd as it's a elite unit but the Grunt Medics have a better chance to fix you with a 4. Should not he at least be on par with the Grunts?

The Sea Lion Medic would cost more if the skill wwas raised any higher.  Further, they tend to find themselves in situations where they are under a bit more duress.

Free Marines
No one of the unit including the Gunnery Sergeat got the Unscrupulous SA. I know it was asked before and that it was removed but I can't get a clear on if the cost for the Free Marines are still correct?

Unscrupulous?  I hardly think of the Free Marines as willing to kill one of their own to further their own goals (unless the target of their ire happens to owe them money).  That said, I see no reason to give them this ability.

Big Bob Watts
Former Free Marine, he ain't got either the Ambush (nor the Unscrupulous SA, which don't fit anyway but hey). Where they removed or should he have them?

Some abilities were removed - game-wise - to keep the cost of the model lower.  That said, the loss of the ability represents new specializations and out-of-practice waning of skills.

Nathan R. Parrish
Former ACG, but no Guerilla Training. He lost the ability?

As Big Bob.

Mitch Hunter
While it's fluff the description mention that he can inspire people as only a good, honest man can do. No Inspire ability though which had fitted.

As above, with a caveat; exactly how many skills should the model have before bing considered for deity status?  ;D  (I believe that his L 15 more than makes up for it.)

Sunset Striker Captain
Should have Ferocity according to this post.  It is not in the FAQ though.

Excellent catch!  I will get this into the FAQ, quickly; thanks!

I will probably find more as I work through the rest of the forces so expect me to post up a few more in this topic in a while... :)

I look forward to the analyses.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 03:40:25 PM by dmcgee1 »
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Offline Pax

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 10:39:04 PM »
Equipment and Rules

Mortar and UBLG load Out question:
Should there not be a difference in strength between the Star Shell Illumination Grenade and the Sun Burst Illumination Flare? Both give the same 8" illumination in diameter.

Mounted Autocannons
None of these got a AV effect, presume this is the same ruling as with Rocket launchers in the FAQ. Could be added that they count as AV-0 there as well? Nice damage bonus when hitting from the rear with those.

DPAT-11 Rocket Launcher
Mounted Rocket Launcher but it's only difference from the hand carried is that MR is -3 instead of -4 and LR is -5 instead of -4. Same damage, same AP rocket rules. I had guessed it would do 14x2 damage or be a -3 on LR since it's mounted.

Orca Heavy Infantry HMG
He can only spend 1 action to fire when mounted on the Orca, could he possible spend the other two disembarking? Say Shot on the 1st action, spend the remaining 2 actions to disembark as the Orca finishes it's 3rd?

Purple Shark Marker Grenades
I once asked before about these Grenades but it was lost among a bunch of other things here. In 2nd edition the grenadier could drop/throw grenades from the purple shark. Is the Comm specialist able to do the same? It's funny since the book included a Firing Arc picture for the Purple Shark but you can not use it. :)

Automatic Shotgun Templates
These shotguns are only marked with the word Template. I would presume that this is a error in the book and that it would say Special Flame Template?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 09:59:08 AM by Pax »

Offline Pax

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 10:05:03 AM »
Imperial Stormtrenchers
Ordinary stormtrenchers have CC 8 and RC 9. Sgt got CC 9 and RC 9. (Not counting LD here as it's looking OK).
Now in ordinary case the specialist units go back to the Trooper choice but not here, instead Specialists get CC 9 and RC 9 as the Sgt. Feels a bit strange and it would probably raise the cost of the units in a unfair manner?

Trencher Captain
He got a Punisher Short Sword, not a Trencher Spade?

Sterlings
This unit lacks a possibility to field a 3rd Specialist. Neither the FT nor the Grenadier is possible to buy 2 of so the unit feels unfinished. Possible that the Grenadier or FT was supposed to be possible to get 2 of?

Black Berets
There is a Agressor Sidearm here which is only given to the Specialists. Either the Black Berets seem to lack one or maybe the Demolition Specialist got one to many?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 12:41:01 PM by Pax »

Offline micmellon

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2012, 12:33:14 AM »
Imperial Stormtrenchers
Ordinary stormtrenchers have CC 8 and RC 9. Sgt got CC 9 and RC 9. (Not counting LD here as it's looking OK).
Now in ordinary case the specialist units go back to the Trooper choice but not here, instead Specialists get CC 9 and RC 9 as the Sgt. Feels a bit strange and it would probably raise the cost of the units in a unfair manner?

But the HMG Specialist gets the RC 9, too. I think it makes sense to give the HMG specialist a better value. The Flamer doesn't need the better value but it makes sense to give both the same.
A sniper specialsts get always a better RC value and if you start to look threw all units you will see it is rare but not the only case.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2012, 12:35:46 AM »
b]Trencher Captain[/b]
He got a Punisher Short Sword, not a Trencher Spade?

The model exist already and has a Punisher Short Sword. The model is from the First Edition and a Captain can have sword. He has not to dig any more any trenches but gives the orders to do it.  ;D
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2012, 12:44:50 AM »
Black Berets
There is a Agressor Sidearm here which is only given to the Specialists. Either the Black Berets seem to lack one or maybe the Demolition Specialist got one to many?

For the Flamer specialist it makes sense because flamers and shotguns can not be used in CC. Not even as clubs as it is possible with rifles.
SMGs are part of the side arms and can be used in CC. There is no need for a Agressor SA if you have a SMG.

There is a topic about this somewhere in the forum and you can find the info hidden in the rule book, too.

The Demo spec has a weapon he don't need but I cannot explain why he has the SA.
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Offline Pax

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2012, 01:12:07 AM »
Imperial Stormtrenchers
Ordinary stormtrenchers have CC 8 and RC 9. Sgt got CC 9 and RC 9. (Not counting LD here as it's looking OK).
Now in ordinary case the specialist units go back to the Trooper choice but not here, instead Specialists get CC 9 and RC 9 as the Sgt. Feels a bit strange and it would probably raise the cost of the units in a unfair manner?

But the HMG Specialist gets the RC 9, too. I think it makes sense to give the HMG specialist a better value. The Flamer doesn't need the better value but it makes sense to give both the same.
A sniper specialsts get always a better RC value and if you start to look threw all units you will see it is rare but not the only case.

It is only the CC value that is 1 higher, the HMG got the same as the Sgt and the ordinary Stormtrenchers in RC.

Offline Pax

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2012, 01:13:58 AM »
Lounghton Rams
Ram Shotgun Specialist is only 2 per squad, and there is no other specialists to buy. A 3 had made more sense.
Also they have no CC weapon, but got both Close Combat Training: 3 and Group Assault. Both which require a Base to Base contact to be in effect. He seems to lack either a CC weapon or a natural attack with his fists. :)
The M-517 Double Barrel Shotgun is a strange choice of weapon as well since it's a Capitol produced weapon and everyone else uses the Mandible Automatic Shotgun.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 01:22:15 AM by Pax »

Offline micmellon

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2012, 02:07:02 AM »
Imperial Stormtrenchers
Ordinary stormtrenchers have CC 8 and RC 9. Sgt got CC 9 and RC 9. (Not counting LD here as it's looking OK).
Now in ordinary case the specialist units go back to the Trooper choice but not here, instead Specialists get CC 9 and RC 9 as the Sgt. Feels a bit strange and it would probably raise the cost of the units in a unfair manner?

But the HMG Specialist gets the RC 9, too. I think it makes sense to give the HMG specialist a better value. The Flamer doesn't need the better value but it makes sense to give both the same.
A sniper specialsts get always a better RC value and if you start to look threw all units you will see it is rare but not the only case.

It is only the CC value that is 1 higher, the HMG got the same as the Sgt and the ordinary Stormtrenchers in RC.

Oh, you are correct. So it is only helpful for breakaways  :(
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 02:36:38 AM by micmellon »
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2012, 02:32:10 AM »
Lounghton Rams
Ram Shotgun Specialist is only 2 per squad, and there is no other specialists to buy. A 3 had made more sense.
Also they have no CC weapon, but got both Close Combat Training: 3 and Group Assault. Both which require a Base to Base contact to be in effect. He seems to lack either a CC weapon or a natural attack with his fists. :)
The M-517 Double Barrel Shotgun is a strange choice of weapon as well since it's a Capitol produced weapon and everyone else uses the Mandible Automatic Shotgun.

I asked about the shotgun years ago but I got only the answer the unit is correct  :'( . My opinion is that they maybe wanted to give him the Dual Mandible Shotgun instead of the Double Barrel Capitol Shotgun and to give him a chainsword like the rest of the team would be fair, too.
The unit is anyway the weakest unit of Imperial. The unit comes never close to the Wolfpack units and I had so far never the chance to field them because they lose all internal comparisons. Maybe if they had MPs or SMGs instead of the SA it would be worth to use them. In this case they would fill a gap in the units, because they would be able to mix RC and CC in a nice way.
The Tactical Sense is almost useless, too. The SAs can only be used for SR distance and PB and in PB you cannot use it anymore. A pimp my unit for the Rams would be really nice.
 But I think I cry too much and I get a little bit off-topic.
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Offline Pax

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 09:17:22 AM »
Hussars
The Hussar Troopers got the stats CC:7 RC:8 LD:10
The Hussar Sgt. got the stats CC:8 RC:9 LD:11

So far so good.

The Hussar HMG, FT and Medic got the stats CC:8 RC:8 LD:9
The Hussar Comm. got the stats CC:7 RC:8 LD:10

This seems inconsistent to me. The HMG, FT and Medic have 1 point lower LD than the regular troops and one higher CC than regular troops and then the Comm Specialist is back to the ordinary Trooper stats.

Ministry of Justice Legates
They seem to lack one Specialist option. Perhaps the Grenadier was supposed to be a Optional up to 2 models instead of 1?

Pauldron Hussars
They got Bladed Bayonet as starting equipment, do this replace the optional load out or is it in addition to it?

Shock Soldier Conscript
The Weapon stats do not match the stats on the equipment page. In this entry it is a -1 CC, 8 DMG weapon. In the weapon lists it's a CC -, DMG 9. This is yet another squad that only got 2 possible specialists to chose from instead of 3.

Executioner Special Ability
The description say you must only wound the model, but isn't a execution all about killing someone?

Ministry Executioner
His description say Elite Squad Leader? He is sorted as a individual in the book though.

Hussar Kaptain
Is he only possible to buy with a squad of Hussars or would Pauldron Hussars work as well?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:14:26 PM by Pax »

Offline Pax

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 11:41:59 AM »
Tank Hunters
Something I have noticed while working through the factions. All Tank Hunters that can be fielded in the different armies have at least 2 wounds, except the Capitol Free Marine Tank Hunter and Desert Scorpion Tank Hunter? It seems odd.

Offline micmellon

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2012, 01:17:50 AM »
Tank Hunters
Something I have noticed while working through the factions. All Tank Hunters that can be fielded in the different armies have at least 2 wounds, except the Capitol Free Marine Tank Hunter and Desert Scorpion Tank Hunter? It seems odd.


That is not correct. The Blood Beret Tank Hunter has only 1 Wound and the Tank Hunter with 2 Wounds are called Tank Busters in Imperial. Maybe that is the difference.
Bauhaus has only one Tank Hunter that makes it difficult to say that this guy is the standard for Bauhaus. He is unique in any way with Tac Sense.

About the other fractions I know only about the Blood Beret Tank Hunter is comparable to Tank hunter of Capitol.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 11:06:11 AM by micmellon »
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Offline Pax

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Re: Questions about some UWZ Troops
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2012, 01:27:46 AM »
Tank Hunters
Something I have noticed while working through the factions. All Tank Hunters that can be fielded in the different armies have at least 2 wounds, except the Capitol Free Marine Tank Hunter and Desert Scorpion Tank Hunter? It seems odd.


That is not correct. The Blood Beret Tank Hunter has only 1 Wound and the Tank Hunter with 3 Wounds are called Tank Busters in Imperial. Maybe that is the difference.
Bauhaus has only one Tank Hunter that makes it difficult to say that this guy is the standard for Bauhaus. He is unique in any way with Tac Sense.

About the other fractions I know only about the Blood Beret Tank Hunter is comparable to Tank hunter of Capitol.


Awesome, I missed him for some reason. Now it makes more sense. :)