Author Topic: Flyer and Environment  (Read 4810 times)

Offline micmellon

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Flyer and Environment
« on: February 09, 2012, 03:53:57 AM »
Does movement penalties apply to flyers. Like the MV-1 in Desert environment.
The penalty comes from the loose sand of the desert. I think flyer shouldn't care about it or does it apply to everybody with no exceptions?
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 04:25:31 AM »
 :D Heh heh! With the title, I expected something like, "Save trees, cut down on handout sheets and flyers."
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 05:50:44 AM »
Funny  ;D but not helpful  :(   ::)  ;)

I was more thinking about the statement about flyer and movement:
A flying model may ignore all terrain penalties.

Are movement penalties from the environment included or not?

Maybe the statement has nothing to do with the environment movement penalties and still a flying model can ignore the effect.
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 06:17:24 AM »
Im not familiar with the rules, but I would go with a common sense agreement. If movement penalties are due to high winds, fog or sleet, I would apply them to flyers as well. Ground-based penalties (quicksand, mud) would not apply to flyers. Undergrowth would count but only if a flyer is flying close to the ground (below treetop level) since the flyer would be constantly jinking to avoid collisions witness the Scout bikes on Endor in Return of the Jedi. At least thats how I would handle it, but Im hardly an authority.
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 06:28:38 AM »
So in a desert environment, penalties due to loose sand would not affect flyers. Penalties for wind-blown sand would.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 06:49:51 AM »
The examples of the rulebook:

Reduced Movement
Units that suffer this effect have become encumbered by
the nature of the terrain and suffer a loss of movement. This
could be from tangled underbrush, shifting desert sand, or knee-deep
snow. The effect is a reduction to the model's MV stat by
the listed amount.

But these are only examples and no rule. We had some nice discussions about it but no final result.
It even states the effect as an effect from the nature of the terrain but does it mean it is a terrain effect?
This would not only influence flying models but skimmers, too.
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 07:36:54 AM »
Well, since the snow is not exactly knee-deep for flyers, Id say theyre immune. But you could also rule that reduced movement does apply if the flyer is moving a low height, hugging the ground, but is waived if the flyer is flying high.

NOE flight (nap-of-the-earth) forces the flyer to jink around undergrowth, snowdrifts and dunes. Arguably, loose snow, mud or sand might be sucked up by the rotorwash and create problems with visibility, forcing the pilot to go more slowly. It even might get into turbines and cause the motor to stutter.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 06:50:14 PM »
This is good!!  I've only played limited Warzone compared to the rest of the gang, but I do know the horrors of a failed environmental roll on the charts, and have seen boards where it's just a generic move penalty for ground models.

I'll ask Dave what he thinks.

In the meantime, just make sure y'all understand the board and the terrain/moving penalties before you throw down, and decide if flyers are affected by them.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 03:03:46 AM »
The quick answer is that vehicles, in general, are not affected by special environmental rules.  Rather, all models are restricted by terrain as listed in the Movement section according to their Movement Type.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline micmellon

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 05:49:16 AM »
Oh, I do know that vehicles are only affected by the general limitations and effects and vehicles have never to roll against the environment. But the movement penalty is a general effect and I was ( I am ???) confused with the vehicle table.

It starts with bikes that are affected by rough and limited terrain. So I thought in the beginning that the terrain part of the table links to special terrain situations like rough and limited but when I started to reread the environment section it looks for me the terrain info for vehicles could be linked to this, too.

Just to clarify it. You mean that vehicles are affected by the general effects of the terrain with some exceptions regarding movement penalties. Correct?
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2012, 03:11:22 AM »
Please, refer to p. 89 - 90 of the rules.  Vehicles are not affected by environmental hazards.  Their movement is only restricted by the terrain over which they travel.  It is up to whomever sets up te table to define the terrain type(s) upon which the game will be played.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline micmellon

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2012, 09:07:05 AM »
Please look at your answer:

http://forum54.oli.us/index.php/topic,6453.0.html

They are effected  ;D

My question is only about the movement penalty. Or do I misunderstood you?
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2012, 04:31:14 PM »
Vehicle Movement is affected by the terrain, based upon the type of locomotion of the vehicle.  If you are playing on a board where the environmental rules include a movement penalty, I recommend defining the penalty and where it occurs.

For instance, our jungle board includes both water and dense foliage.  For skimmers this would represent opportunities for bonuses and penalties to their MV value.

Common sense should prevail, and the penalties should be based upon the terrain, not the arbitrary value for foot soldiers.

The Automatic Effects refer to penalties such as reduced visibility, communications penalties, etc.

As usual, communication between the players is essential, and should always take precedence whenever there is a question concerning rules.  As long as both players agree to the penalties/bonuses, I see no reason why anything like this would impede a game.  For tournament purposes, spell it out prior to the first game.

Does this clear it up?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 04:34:01 PM by dmcgee1 »
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline micmellon

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 02:18:06 AM »
We will define a general house rule and if a scenario needs a special movement rule I will put it into my scenarios so everybody knows about before the game starts.

That should help.

THX!
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Flyer and Environment
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 05:32:00 PM »
Please look at your answer:

http://forum54.oli.us/index.php/topic,6453.0.html

They are effected  ;D

My question is only about the movement penalty. Or do I misunderstood you?

Thank you for this reference.  From now on, whenever I am presented with a reference, I will endeavor to link it to the current discussion as a means of clarification, as seen here:  http://forum54.oli.us/index.php/topic,6453.new.html#new
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:36:13 PM by dmcgee1 »
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!