Author Topic: [1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks  (Read 5382 times)

Offline Raga

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[1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks
« on: March 29, 2011, 04:29:21 AM »
The more I read the rules the more I am confused.

Should Strength be added to all of the attackst except where it is pointed that is already calculated (Dark Tusks Special Attack, Blood Bone Totem, Wolf Totem etc.)?
Should Strength be added to Ram Attacks?
Should Strength be added to Damage of Thrown Weapons? (Stygian Embalmed, Vridian Lords, Hearthguards)?

Should Charge Bonus be added to Ram Attacks, Dark Tusks Special Attacks and Animal Kicks/Bites?




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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: [1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 05:33:48 AM »
Okay. This issue also confused me. I took to adding Strength to all natural attacks except where it was expressly noted in the rules that it was not. This led to some over-the-top damage codes, for example with the Tormentedīs gore attack, but hey, ever noticed the size of that horn? Being speared by the horn of a Size 3 (elephant-sized) demon actually must feel like a damage 18 attack.

With the Tusk and Ram attacks, it hasnīt led to too much trouble, but, again, the Trample damage codes tended to be over the top. Since usually, with several Goblin and Ogre Myrmadons in my army, I am the one who does the trampling, I tend not to add a Strength bonus to Trample attacks. Note that all those are house rules and not supported by FAQ or anything.


Iīm actually more interested in a ruling for those mounted models who werenīt supplied separate stats for mount and rider. Orc Kutara lancers, for example, have a Strength of 3, which I assume represents the bulk and muscle of the Kutara. Do the Orcīs falchion attacks get a strength bonus? Looking at the way real-life cuirassiers, hussars and ulans fought, Iīd say yes, since the cutting power of the strike (swinging upward, always swinging upward) gains from the added height and momentum of the horse.

With a lance, it is easier to picture, since itīs actually the mountīs momentum alone that drives the lance into the opponentīs body. One can imagine the force of the impact if one looks at historical armour – when I visited the Royal Armouries in Leeds they had several suits of plate on display where the tip of a lance had gone clean through breastplate and backplate (not to mention the wearerīs body in between), sporting a hole I could have put my fist through.

On the other hand, those models who do have a split statline usually have a lower Strength stat for the rider, so it would be fair to give the Orc a strength of, say, 1 for his own attacks.

"How was I supposed to know he was an unarmed man? His back was to me."

Offline Raga

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Re: [1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 06:04:58 AM »
Horned Owl: You did not satisfy my thirst of knowledge :P

Do you say that Dwarven Tusk attack and Ram attack should be improved with charge bonuses?
On one hand these attacks are available only during the charge so the damage should be already calculated.
On the other hand there is Brace Special Ability which disables charge bonuses and then Ram and Tusk attack should have their damage reduced.... so they have to be increased (by charge) to be reduced (by Brace) right?

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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: [1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 06:21:48 AM »
I like the way youīre thinking  ;)

Since itīs an additional attack during the charge, Iīd say the charge bonuses apply. (Thatīs the way we play it, at least.) Either that, or the attack has an unmodified value which is neither increased by the charge nor decreased by an opponentīs brace. Charge bonuses to the attack roll would apply in either case, I think.

"How was I supposed to know he was an unarmed man? His back was to me."

Offline Raga

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Re: [1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 10:51:17 AM »
I missed your doubts considering the "Old" cavalry.

(Keep in mind that some of the "Old" cavalry was corrected in "Fallen Land" compendium)

Mount of a Cavalry that has split characteristics has around 10 CC and Rider has less Strength but has one more action - Rider is the main damage dealer.

Mount of an "Old" Cavalry uses higher (shared) CC and the Rider has more (shared) Strength, but has one action less - they are very balanced

So, yes the Rider of the "Old" Cavalry uses the Strength of whole unit - let's call it "using the mementum". And in both cases the damage output is similar (but the "New" Cavalry has a possiblity to deal one more wound)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 10:58:43 AM by Raga »
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Offline MassDistortion

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Re: [1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 11:50:25 AM »
Ram: Errata: A models ST is not added in to the damage of a Ram Attack. Chron pg. 141

Special Attacks: Clarification: As a general rule unless otherwise stated in the unit’s description any model with a special attack such as a tusk attack or ram does not add it’s strength bonus to the dam but does add their charge bonus to the dam.

Dark-Tusk: Q: When a Dark-Tusk Legion trooper charges into CC, he gets a free Tusk attack Strength 10, the models strength isnt added but do I add the Charge bonus to the attacks strength?
A: Yes. Chron pg. 173

This is covered in the FAQ / Errata which you can find here: http://www.chronopiaworld.com/artikel.php?id=2

 ;D

Offline Raga

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Re: [1st edition] Strength, Natural Weapons and Special Attacks
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 11:03:54 PM »
Is this FAQ / Errata page official?
There are some very wierd interpretations...

Embalmed: Clarifications:
Strength and charge bonuses are added to the Throwing Spear damage when the Embalmed throws spears.
Can throw their spears if they are not charging into combat, they may only throw one spear per action. LoTR pg. 88

Why do spears get charging bonuses? They are thrown weapons.
Why can Embalmed throw only one spear per action, but two while charging?


Nightwalker: Rules Change and Clarification: When the Nightwalker model uses its special ability to throw 3 Thin Bladed Throwing Dirks as one action the following rules are used to determine the effect. You must roll to hit for each dirk. The enemy model only makes one armor save against the entire attack. The damage for the attack depends on how many dirks hit. If one dirk hits the enemy model must make a save against damage five, if two dirks hit damage ten, and if three dirks hit the armor roll is again damage fifteen. The damage is considered to be coming from a single attack. Any effects that reduce the dam, such as a shield, subtract from the total damage, not from each dirk. Chron pg. 151 & 153
It is ridiculous. The damage should be 5(x3). And we use only one hit roll - they are thrown at the same time.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 07:00:31 AM by Raga »
Let us drink to the power drink to the sound
Thunder and metal are shaking the ground
Drink to your brothers who are never to fall
We're brothers of metal here in the hall