Author Topic: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions  (Read 2455 times)

Offline Pollo

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Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« on: March 02, 2011, 08:01:44 PM »
Pollo's question number 27:

In my company we experienced some uncertainty in verifying the possibility to fire at enemy models when there are friendly models between the target and the attacker. We are looking for a clarification, or for a common interpretation.
So I am asking: in which of the following situations can A shoot at B?
(1 and 2 are friendly to A)

1:


2:


3:


4:


Thanks,

P

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 10:40:21 AM »
According to my (unofficial) interpretation, only "4:" allows fire from A to B.

When measuring the 1" gap, it should be in LOS, and the the one-inch gap should be measured along the LOS.

I will try to get some graphics up to make it more clear.


EDIT:  I meant "4:"
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 04:59:34 PM by dmcgee1 »
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 12:27:29 PM »
In all 4 cases A would be unable to shoot at B There is not a 1 inch gap. In picture 1 if B was at the same distance but lined up with model 2 there would be a 1 inch gap and a shoot could be taken. That's my take on it based on you cant shoot thru a friendly model. Unless your taking about indirect fire weapons.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 05:00:48 PM »
Hey, Phil,

    Examples 3 and 4 are regarding indirect fire.  However, only example 4 shows a line of sight (LOS) from the acting model to the target.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Seamus

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Re: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 04:42:00 AM »
Dave, even in 4, there is no LOS.  No 1 inch gap.  If one of those two friendly models is a forward observer OR there is another forward observer with LOS and range then the indirect fire weapons could be used with speculative fire but I would make him roll another Leadership Roll before he fired because both friendly models and possibly him and are going to be under the template.  I don't know of any Indirect Fire weapon that doesn't use a template and the majority use the Small Explosion Template.

Figure 1 is the only case where he has LOS with a 1 inch gap and could fire his weapon.  Remember that even though the designator on the front is directly behind the friendly model, you can trace LOS from any point in the front facing which is 180 degrees.
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Offline Pollo

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Re: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 06:36:47 AM »
but I would make him roll another Leadership Roll before he fired because both friendly models and possibly him and are going to be under the template.
Do not consider the actual distance from 1 to B as represented in pictures 3 and 4... it could be any distance within range.

Anyway, for situations 3 and 4, I have found the answer in the manual (page 53): models with Indirect Fire weapons...
Quote
[...] may fire over friendly models closer than one inch together so long as they have LOS.
I should have searched better. Sorry.

Then 1 and 2 remain. There is even a 5th situation, in which A is in the 1' corridor, and B is partially out as in picture 2.

Note: in picture 2, B is partially within the 1' corridor. So it is possible to trace a line from A to B without crossing 1.

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 03:27:07 PM »
LOS is traced from any part of a firing model's base (within its firing arc) to any part of the target's base.  If a line may be drawn from base to base, then LOS exists.

The one inch firing lane is measured perpendicular to the traced line between friendly models or a friendly model and any other model or terrain that would block LOS.

The easiest way to explain is to take a length of paper that is one inch wide and however long it needs to be to reach the target.  If this piece of paper may be placed in such a manner that it does not contact a friendly base while touching the firer's and the target's bases, then the direct fire shot is perfectly safe.  It is the same logic that governs template weapons like the flame thrower.

Note:  This measurement applies to any dimension, including whether there is obstruction in the vertical plane.

Indirect fire is different.  If LOS exists, the shot may be taken over other models - friendly or not.

Speculative fire is different, still.  It requires the successful use of a dedicated Forward Observer, and then must also take into account the terrain shadow (p. 54)

Does that clear it up?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 03:29:04 PM by dmcgee1 »
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Pollo

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Re: Intervening friendly models in Fire actions
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 04:21:46 PM »
Does that clear it up?

Definitively. Karma!