Author Topic: [2nd edition] Black sister champion  (Read 4207 times)

Offline Oakwolf

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[2nd edition] Black sister champion
« on: December 25, 2010, 09:12:49 AM »
I've found it interesting, if not a bit strange, that a black sister champion has a worse defence (-6) than the leader of a black sister squad (-7). It seems counter-intuitive to say the least as i'd expect her to at least be just as good.

While perhaps intended, her CC is also unimproved from the leader version.

A close comparison would be the blade maiden champions, who follow a much more logical pattern.

Was this a typo?

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: [2nd edition] Black sister champion
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 10:48:04 AM »
It may take a month, but I'll see if it was intentional or not.
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: [2nd edition] Black sister champion
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2011, 08:06:07 PM »
Forgive me, as I do not have my Chronopia book in my possession (Dodge, looking at you, here).  Is the Champ's AR better?  If so, this would explain the lower D.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Oakwolf

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Re: [2nd edition] Black sister champion
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 11:00:43 AM »
Black Sister Champion compared to her leader counterpart.

Compared to the Black Sister Leader, you pay 18 pts for:

1 ST, 1 LD, 1 WD, 1 AR, secondary attack, commanding presence and loose 1 Def.

I think this is unique in the game where you actually loose a stat going from leader to champion. Given how low their AR already is for such a costly unit, i highly doubt that the AR gain compensate for the lost defense. You probably also noticed that she didn't even gain CC.

Imho she should get +1CC and keep -7 Defense like the leader.


Now Let's take a look at the Blade Maiden Champion and her leader counter part.

Compared to the Blade maiden leader, you pay 25 pts for:

2 CC, 1 ST, 1 Ld, 1 AC (!), 1 WD, 1 AR, commanding presence
Note:keep in mind that all blade maidens have killing stroke, therefore being more deadly than the secondary attack of the black sister leader.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 11:07:36 AM by Oakwolf »

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: [2nd edition] Black sister champion
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 03:11:26 AM »
At first glance, it seems pretty fair to me.

18 PC gets you a wound, an additional attack and additional damage, and a gain in armor and a loss in defense.  Heavy armor means less agility to avoid an attack.  The extra wound, attack and damage makes her almost as good as having two models, and you only pay the additional 18 PC.

Again, allow me to say that I am not a Chronopia expert.  That said, it seems balanced to me.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Oakwolf

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Re: [2nd edition] Black sister champion
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 08:19:38 AM »
I wouldn't refer having 14AR as "heavy armor"  :D, but like you say, it is not unbalanced, but i question the logic of the printed stats. Black sisters live or die by their defense so being a champion...logically would improve that defense (over normal trooper).

Let's see what Mr. Slater finds out.

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: [2nd edition] Black sister champion
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 12:10:29 PM »
I too would love to know the rubric for points formulation in Chronopia.  From looking at enough models in the book, and working with Thom on statting out some stuff, I can tell you that the points almost fall into a situation where 1 attribute being raised is enough to raise the point cost of the model by one point.

The obvious ones are where the leader has 1 LD and 1 CC higher than the grunt, and is 2 points more.  It's not exactly that way over the whole, but it gives you some idea of what's cooking.

There is also a relationship between CC, armor, and defensive modifier that I don't know, and Thom ain't revealing, that affects the point basis of the models in the game. 

The Black Sister Champion is pointed correctly by the numbers, but I understand you wanting that extra Defensive point over one point of armor. 
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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Offline Oakwolf

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Re: [2nd edition] Black sister champion
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 07:11:20 AM »
Well, personally it won't affect to me too much, gaming wise, as i can use the blade maiden champion with my army.

That said, Repulsar Knights or Marksmen have better defense, armor and CC than their trooper counterparts, so the black sister champion is effectively unique in that aspect. I have not found any other example in the book where this loss of defense occurs over the leader of a squad.

Interesting: The black sister leader gets +1CC, +1LD and -1Def for a mere 2pts.

Going from leader to champion costs 18 more pts (for the stats mentionned above in this thread). I just can't see why she had to loose the def in the process.

It's ok if things stay as is, but it will remain as a ??? for me whenever i see it :P
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 07:24:43 AM by Oakwolf »