Needed changes in UWZ 3rd Edition.

[Vile_Tuntematinen]

When it comes to changes

1) Shooting priority : I find better the rule of 1ed "the closest unit -> the closest model EXCEPT IF U ENCOUNTER a giant model (vehicle, monster etc) , then u shoot the giant. In case, a unit is closer than
6 inches, u anyway shoot the closest model". Sounds more logic to me...

2) Support of Rasputin/Lutherans : Well, especialy for the technologicaly more advanced  Rasputins
having a single MMG as a support ( 38 points!!!) is realy weird! Maybe fielding a BATTERY of 1-3 MMGs
(and yes... 1-3 individuals MMGs in different positions) looks more fair to me

3) This is more personal... I liked the special type of units in Dark Eden 1ed sourcebook. This culd make
Eden forces more formidable and less depended on numbers, for example a bannerman/HMG combo in a soldat squad needs 8 of them, but adding the bannerman as a SPECIAL unit to a Vicar, u can have the 4 man + HMG squad and the bannerman through a Vicar etc

4) The Chasseurs rnt so powerful enough, compared to the plot of the saga... by making them stronger (and more expensive) u also make People Volunteer more logical choice, for those dont want to spend the cost of chasseurs ( take as an example the Hussar / Dragoon dillema in Bauhaus)

Thanx!

[Dragon62]

I personally think EE has done a great with their 3rd edition of the game. I only have a few things i'd like to see modified: 1) As with most posting here i think the battlesuits for Bauhaus should be a support choice. 2) Target Prioroty; tac sense is ok but if your squad is facing a partial squad and a vehical on next activation is going to barrel doen on you at opt. range +3/x3 you should be able to target the deadlier unit not get wiped out due to a failed tac sense roll. and 3) the final thing i'd like to see is for the Cartel i think Doomtroopers should be Elites not support. When you figure the basic elite squad is 5 men thats 5 wds 15 actions cost about 145 pts with DT 6 wds 6 ac and 95 to 115? pts then for support an APC, Scoutbike or even a support unit from any corp since the DM's come from the 5 corps. This is just IMHO

[kwegibu]

i vote for the vulkan menace

i also don't care much for the negative modifiers as you get closer to someone. The closer you are to someone the easier it is to hit them, not harder. I find myself backing up to make shots, and it just seems goofy.

[Coil]

i also don't care much for the negative modifiers as you get closer to someone. The closer you are to someone the easier it is to hit them, not harder. I find myself backing up to make shots, and it just seems goofy.

The weapon profiles are there for a reason so that various weapons will have a particular range where they excel. Assault rifles are good at SR/MR while SMGs are good at PB/SR etc etc.

The weapon section is one of my favourite sections of UWZ.

[PFC joe]

i also don't care much for the negative modifiers as you get closer to someone. The closer you are to someone the easier it is to hit them, not harder. I find myself backing up to make shots, and it just seems goofy.

once again I'll have to refer to the nerf challenge. With a rifle it gets exceptionaly difficult to hit anything ducking, dodging weavin and running at you  when it's ducking, dodging weavin and running almost on top of you.  Same as how knives win gun fights when you're within punching distance, it's kinda counter intuitive.

-PFC joe

[semai99]

3) This is more personal... I liked the special type of units in Dark Eden 1ed sourcebook. This culd make
Eden forces more formidable and less depended on numbers, for example a bannerman/HMG combo in a soldat squad needs 8 of them, but adding the bannerman as a SPECIAL unit to a Vicar, u can have the 4 man + HMG squad and the bannerman through a Vicar etc

I quite liked some of these units in the old Dark Eden Book, the idea of the Vicar being able to have his own personal Bannerman displaying his colours I like and as you can have only 1 Vicar in an Army it wouldn't be to powerful.

I also liked some of the corporation units for Dark Eden some of these have made it into the book but I really liked some of the artwork for the others:
Brotherhood: Missionaries, & Seekers (I love this picture)    Crucifiers (in UWZ), Watchmen (in UWZ)
Capitol: Wolverine, Antagons (look a bit like the northern sons with two Machine pistols)
Bauhaus:  Ulfwerner,  Recitor (in UWZ)
Imperial: Conquistadors, Fallen Angels
Cybertronic: Surveiler (in UWZ), 19th Silent (in UWZ)
Mishima: Jade Ghosts, Enigmas
Dark legion only Nassals didn't make it.

I expect some of these units might make an apperance in a later book for Dark Eden, I hope so as the artwork makes them look quite good as possible models.

But as far as the game is concerned I think they made a great job of the rules and I throughly enjoy playing in this background with these rules.

[Topkick]

i vote for the vulkan menace

i also don't care much for the negative modifiers as you get closer to someone. The closer you are to someone the easier it is to hit them, not harder. I find myself backing up to make shots, and it just seems goofy.

I'm not sure what kind of shooting you do and how often you go but weapons have optimal ranges and too close is as bad or worse as too far. I think this is what the modifiers represent.

[kwegibu]

i also don't care much for the negative modifiers as you get closer to someone. The closer you are to someone the easier it is to hit them, not harder. I find myself backing up to make shots, and it just seems goofy.

once again I'll have to refer to the nerf challenge. With a rifle it gets exceptionaly difficult to hit anything ducking, dodging weavin and running at you  when it's ducking, dodging weavin and running almost on top of you.  Same as how knives win gun fights when you're within punching distance, it's kinda counter intuitive.

-PFC joe

Punching distance isn't short range. It's hardly PB. I just flipped through the books and realized that I by and large agree with you. The only exception I can find is the brotherhood assualt riffle (and it was what i was basing my statement on, as i play brotherhood and it comes up often for me).

Even with your nerf challenge (especially with nerf weapons) I don't see how it is easier to hit someone at medium range then at short range. Nerf Weapons don't generally go medium range. I can totally understand negatives at point blank, thats not the issue. The issue is why would there be a penalty at PB, nothing at short, and then +1 at medium? Id even be for not getting the +1! then at least there would be no temptation to keep myself at medium.

But then mishima gets a little weird becuse their assault riffle has a plus one in point blank and then negatives at short and medium. There goes nerf theory.

I still love the game, and i think its pretty damn balanced so i can live with it, but i do think it doesn't make sense.

[kwegibu]

But then what the mishima call an 'assualt riffle' isn't very convincing, so the BH remains the only outlier (just dug through the box for an ashigaru to look at it)

[PFC joe]

the demon-poker (oniyari) is a spear that happens to fire bullets.

 As far as rifles being more accurate at medium range it basicly boils down to this,

at closer ranges the target causes greater rifle aiming displacements with smaller moves.  the further out it is (within reason) the less the rifle has to traverse to track the target.  So the target moving in short range causes the rifle firer to have to turn his body more to track.  At medium range just a slight shifting and at long range the target is smaller and harder to hit. 

the Brotherhood rifle is magical.

honest.

actually they just have access to technology that helps them produce a more accurate rifle.  it helps to be the ones in control of all that catolouged forbidden technology.

-PFC joe

[Lopis]

What would be useful are rules to include minis that are completeley useless and therefore underrepresented in gaming.
As there are the mentioned medics.

The Paras are the next... Has anyone of you got one unit healthy on the ground? For half the point cost they would be useful, because you get about 50% of your minis out living. Makes a whole squad for the same price....

Some other units exist, where I ask myself for what they were included.
The concept maybe good, but when is such a unit fielded?

As the Brotherhood Pilgrim Executioner, the Bauhaus Ministry Executioners....

[Lopis]

When it comes to changes

1) Shooting priority : I find better the rule of 1ed "the closest unit -> the closest model EXCEPT IF U ENCOUNTER a giant model (vehicle, monster etc) , then u shoot the giant. In case, a unit is closer than
6 inches, u anyway shoot the closest model". Sounds more logic to me...

Yep,
this I can fully support this. The Meat barrier agains vehicles that are about thrice the size of a mini doesn´t make sense to me. ( the Faceless-Barrier reminds me of something ...)

[Bagomba]

I think Stealth must be improved... it´s to easy to spot someone in stealth Modus, you can spot them from anywhere on the Battlefield, with mostly over 50 % Chance to spot ( and no Range Modifier or Cover Bonus )
and if one Model in a Squad spots succesful, all other in the squad can shoot you, this is really devastating....
And you can´t run fast enough, 6 Inch are the most ( if the terrain is good ).

There should be range modifierers or cover Bonus, or they should have full movement in stealth....

And another change is the Mishima Dragon Pack... they are better Capitol Dog Soldiers, but not more.
To Field them as Support slot is just a joke.... no other cooperation has such a weak squad as support... i will always field any other support from Mishima, before fielding them ( you don´t have much support slots )
in my oppinion they have to be grunt, because they are as good as a grunt squad...

[sleeping_squirrel]

I think Stealth must be improved... it´s to easy to spot someone in stealth Modus, you can spot them from anywhere on the Battlefield, with mostly over ....

You can spot only on your LD distance (FAQ).

[kwegibu]

And another change is the Mishima Dragon Pack... they are better Capitol Dog Soldiers, but not more.
To Field them as Support slot is just a joke.... no other cooperation has such a weak squad as support... i will always field any other support from Mishima, before fielding them ( you don´t have much support slots )
in my oppinion they have to be grunt, because they are as good as a grunt squad...

Well at least you have a choice of choosing a diffrent support squad. I don't remember there stats ( i never use them ) but even if it is true there isn't a worse support squad, mishima isn't lacking in good support.

Now if you have issue with the Death Angel, well your out of luck, as that is the only support option brotherhood has. Other then cartel. MIshima can take from tribes too.

in short: mishima has it made even without there dragons

BTW mishima is the army i play second most (2nd to brotherhood).