Author Topic: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)  (Read 2315 times)

Offline Raga

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How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« on: August 17, 2010, 05:50:53 AM »
How many heavy weapons do you use in your squads?
Have you noticed one additional rule for using one additional heavy weapon for large squads? (Rulebook - Page 65 - Paragraph: Limitations)
Imperial Trenchers and Airborne Rangers have starting structure of 7 soldiers so they have 2 heavy weapons in their equipment.
Capitol Troopers and Bauhaus Hussars, have only one weavy weapon, but they can have 7 soldiers (or more) in a squad and then they can add one additional heavy weapon. The same rule should apply for Secret Cohorts of Algeroth (because they use corporate armory).
This rule is also repeated for Weel Templars of Ilian in their equipment (Casualties of War - Page 71).

We used to use minimal squads to maximize amount of individual models, but this changed it.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 06:04:35 PM »
Welcome to the boards.  I don't have the answer for you, as I only have played Ultimate Warzone.  Someone should be along who knows the answer to your question.  Summertime is slow with everyone being outside or on vacation.
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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Offline Lopis

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Re: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 08:44:55 AM »
My opinion?

Just donīt put therm into the squads, they canīt normally brace them, wxcept the dragoons with the Kampfkanone as I remember.

Just max out the number of individuals with minimum squad size and maximum AR with sidearms.
Then use the number of individuals you get out of that, max them to the teeth with Heroic abilities and Special equipment, get them a Nimrod and let them wreak havoc ;-)
Solus honor cladem avertat !

Offline Oakwolf

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Re: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2010, 02:13:20 PM »
It's interesting to see that we play on the other end of the spectrum here. Lopis pretty much described what we do not (want) to see happening here.I guess that's the beauty of the 1st edition in that it is possible for both to be done.

We don't have it on paper per se, but heavy weapons usually go to squad first, before handing it to the individuals. Simply because it fits more the scene we want to play. The rules have failed (for us) when it comes to heavy weapon costs: it shouldn't cost the same for a Trencher than for an ISC agent to bring a Charger to the game. that's especially visible if Special equipment is carried.

So if you have a squad that can have 2 heavy weapons, depending on the mission, they'll likely be fitted with a lmg and hmg before you see the captain toting one.

We stuck to the book's text for max numbers of heavy weapons though (so Capitol/Bauhaus don't get an extra one)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 02:19:27 PM by Oakwolf »

Offline Falkenhayn

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Re: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2010, 02:16:51 PM »
hello
im not a Friend of large Squads anyway (well except for some Mishima Units like the Bushidos  ;)) i think its better to have 2 Infantry Squads of lets say 7 Men, rather than one large with about 12 Men.the more activations,the better, in my opinion  ::)

Offline Lopis

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Re: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 11:23:47 PM »
As Oakwood described precisely the problem of the first edition is a possible overpowering of individuals (take e better look at the Pretorian stalkers, imagine them with a Nazgaroth and you know exactly what a bad guy is.....; OK Brotherhood  can do that with the Pilgrim Executioners and their powershield to an ugly excess --> give orders, teleport into CC an crunch half an army)

If you know that you can fix it by house rulings and have a lot of fun though.
The approach of getting the heavy weapons to the squad first is a good one, then limit the HSA, the Necrotech and exclude the giant models from them ( A Bio-Giant, or a Behemoth with Lucky Fate is ugly business) and you can get a good game.

And as you say outactivation of your opponent gives you various possibilities for outmaneuvering or other tactical goodies.
Solus honor cladem avertat !

Offline Oakwolf

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Re: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 05:21:01 AM »
I agree with Lopis there, although i would say that some armies are less suited for "smaller squads" than others. Troops that can be broken will be at risk earlier in the game than others. It is logical too as special units typically operate in smaller squads.

It's really a matter of choice and situations. There are indeed great bonuses to having more squads, but bigger squads have a bigger impact once activated or given orders, while the "many small units" will take a longer while to produce the same effect. Int he end, the number of actions is the same.

Lastly, in our context (we put heavy weapons in squads before individuals), it is more dangerous to field the big guns in smaller squads, as they can be hit after just a few casualties.

Offline Raga

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Re: How many heavy weapons in a squad? (1st ed)
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2010, 10:57:46 PM »
Yes, Individual models on a rampage with HMGs are pain in the...
Heroic abilities are optional, you can (as we did) let the specialists have them (especially very strong)
Imagine that:
My firiend acitivates ICS Agent with deathlockdrum and goes out of the wall, and shoots twice, on the last action, he goes back behind the wall.
Then I use my wait actions on unactivated Capitol Heavy infantry
I have 4 models (with hard and extra cover (30 armor) in front to make shooting priority) + 2 specialists (with very strong what gives them 3 str) with M89 + Sergeant behind (7 models)
It is something to give second thoughts for a such Individual to come out. The main advantage is that after my friend finishes all of the actions I can activate Infantry to give them hide/wait/extra cover again.

With one heavy weapon in a squad the chances to hit are low enough not to scare such Individual. And If I had 2 minimal squads (one heavy weapon in each) I could activate only one (to give hide/extra cover again) and the other would be wiped out with enemy's sniper.

Having 2 heavy weapons in such squad does not prevent me from heaving one more (or sniper rifle) on Captain
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 03:00:08 AM by Raga »
Let us drink to the power drink to the sound
Thunder and metal are shaking the ground
Drink to your brothers who are never to fall
We're brothers of metal here in the hall