Author Topic: Negative to hit values with template weapons.  (Read 4991 times)

Offline Enker

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Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« on: January 31, 2006, 03:29:13 AM »
"You always hit with a one" I know that, but how is the damage of template weapons with negativ to hit values calculated?
Example: A Hvy. Inf. RL fires with AP Rockets. The target is in cover, smoke surrounds him and the Hvy. Inf is panicked.
So you get -3 -3 -4 and -4 for the distance. That makes -14 on the RC of 8 = -6 to hit role. Now you make a 5 with the to hit roll. How much damage do you make?
1.) 6 Dam. Because you always hit with a one and you calculate the damage to one.
2.) 0 Dam. Because you calculate the damage to the -6 to hit roll. -6+10 -(5-1)=0
3.) One Damage. Damage is calculated as in 2., but you always do a minimum of one damage.
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Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 09:38:12 AM »
None of the above.  If you roll a 5 in your example you do not hit since the to hit number was -6 the only roll that could successfully hit the target would be a 1, and in that case the damage would be 7 (10 Base Damage -7 the amount missed by +4 for the critical success of rolling a 1).  There was some talk a while ago about whether or not you could critical hit with a template weapon when the to hit number was negative, but I don't remember any ruling being made.

Offline PFC joe

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2006, 10:17:20 AM »
While a one will always hit, if you could not actually hit (ie negative to hit number) then a roll of one will do damage, just no critical damage.

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Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 10:20:32 AM »
Ok then so to correct my explaination of your example, in the situation you describe the only roll that could possible hit is a 1, and the resulting damage would be 3 (10 base damage for AP rockets - 7 the number missed by).

Offline chribu

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 10:29:30 AM »
If in that example Base Damage were 7 instead of 10 and RC = 7, resulting damage would be -1... what happens then?

Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 10:31:45 AM »
You miss.

Offline chribu

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 11:00:52 AM »
Uhm, so double "1" wouldn't do it?

Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 11:25:31 AM »
Double 1?  I'm not sure what you mean. 

Template weapons don't use the same hit or miss mechanic of other weapons, instead if you're attacking with a template weapon and you miss by more than the base damage of the weapon that attack does no damage, but still hits.

So in your example of a trooper with 7 RC and a 7 damage template weapon (BTW what has this , LI grenade Launcher?)  with the same modifiers as Enker proposed: -3 cover, -3 smoke, -4 panic and -4 range, the total modifier to RC is -14 so 7-14=-7, therefore even on a roll of 1 you would do 0 damage.

At least thats how I see things.  Joe, any thoughts?

Offline chribu

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 11:28:17 AM »
sorry, I meant a "1" in my "to hit" roll, and a "20" in the AR roll.
Ok, so I get it, if DM is less than 1 he doesn't need to make an AR roll.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 11:30:22 AM by chribu »

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2006, 12:18:20 PM »
Enker in your exp if firing ap rocket it always hits with damage based on your roll so on a 1 you would do 3 pts of dam on a 2 you would do 2 pod and on a 3 you would do 1 pod.
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Offline PFC joe

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2006, 01:04:17 PM »
just out of curiosity, who would actually shoot with a penalty of -14?
I'm tryin to find if we decided that if you couldn't hit you couldn't hit.

At this point I'd just say that if you couldn't actually hit the target except with a one, regardless of decaying damage, then only on a one will you hit and only with the resultant damage.

in Enkers original example  RC 8 with a penalty of 14 and the AP damage of 10 would yield an armor check on anythin four and below.  However, given that the penalty is greater than the original RC I would only allow a natural 1 to hit.  and even then I'd only give it the resultant damage ie 4 in this case.  I'm not sure if that's what we decided, but for the moment that's how I'd play it.

I'm not sure where ya came up with the "always does one point of damage" thing but that's flat out.

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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2006, 08:56:11 PM »
The problem, here, is that a regualr ranged weapon does its listed damage, whether, or not, the modified RC is a negative number.  Therefore, the Ducal Militia with the RC of 7 shooting at a target that is in Hard Cover (-3) behind Level 4 Smoke (-4) and that is at Long Range (-2) needs to roll an unmodified 1 to hit the target.  This will not add 4 to the DM, as the modified RC wound up being < 1.

When using a template that can "deviate", I would suggest that as with any other ranged weapon, if the modified RC winds up being negative, then no critical hit may be scored.  Further, if the weapon "deviates" (causes less DM), simply treat teh negatives as you would if they were positive.

Ex. 1
  • Ducal Militia Rocket Launcher Specialist: RC 7 w/ ARG-17 Rocket Launcher (-3 SR, -4 MR, -5 LR; DM 10 (AP))
    The RL spec fires at a target in hard cover (-3) from behind smoke (-3) at long range (-5) for a modified -4 RC!  The RL spec rolls a 1 - normally a critical hit, but not here.  The roll was "missed" by a total of 5, therefore the weapon (DM 10) only does DM 5 to all affected targets.

Ex. 2
  • Ducal Militia Rocket Launcher Specialist: RC 7 w/ ARG-17 Rocket Launcher (-3 SR, -4 MR, -5 LR; DM 10 (AP))
    The RL spec fires at a target in hard cover (-3) from behind smoke (-3) at long range (-5) for a modified -4 RC!  The RL spec rolls a 2, but the shot still hits, even though the RC was a modified negative.  The roll was "missed" by a total of 6, therefore the weapon (DM 10) only does DM 4 to all affected targets.

Ex. 3
  • Ducal Militia Rocket Launcher Specialist: RC 7 w/ ARG-17 Rocket Launcher (-3 SR, -4 MR, -5 LR; DM 10 (AP))
    The RL spec fires at a target in hard cover (-3) from behind smoke (-3) at long range (-5) for a modified -4 RC!  The RL spec rolls a 6, but the shot still hits, even though the RC was a modified negative.  The roll was "missed" by a total of 11, therefore the weapon (DM 10) does DM 0 (no damage) to all affected targets.

Does this make sense?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 09:00:15 PM by dmcgee1 »
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Offline Enker

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2006, 12:07:44 AM »
Dmcgee1, so you calculate the damage with the negative to hit value, as in my second answer.
This seems logical to me.
For the rule "a one always hit" you could say, that if you role a one you do always a minimum of 1 damage.
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Offline chribu

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2006, 01:16:49 AM »
it does make sense to me, could be a good explanation... :)

Offline Enker

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Re: Negative to hit values with template weapons.
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2006, 07:16:49 AM »
Some of you wrote "the attack does 0 damage".
But what does 0 damage mean?
Does it mean, that the victim has to roll a save and
if he rolls a 20 he gets one wound?
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