Author Topic: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops  (Read 5355 times)

Offline Pollo

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Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« on: March 02, 2010, 03:07:26 AM »
Pollo's question number 7:

According to rules, mounted troops have a Front Facing of 180° and a Firing Arc of 360°. Does it mean that they can draw LOS in every direction? Even for non-RC Actions (like Spot)?

P

P.S.: Jobian Cavaliers have the Gunslinger SA: isn't it redundant?

Offline Lopis

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 02:19:08 PM »
Since you mention the cavaliers I think you refer to the UWZ rules.

As by the UWZ rules it simply doesnīt matter for the indicated case.
LOS is always drawn within an arc of 360° if not diminished by terrain obstructions or special other things.
Tha advantage is that mounted troops can use their greater firing arc. Other models would have to use a move action to turn first.

But remember that in some cases the facing is still relevant!
You still can only react with actions from wait as countercharge or brace or withdraw if the originating action to react on is initiated within the front facing.


As by this circumstances I would say that yes, the gunslinger Ability for the cavaliers is redundant.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 02:27:57 PM by Lopis »
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Offline Pollo

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 05:39:29 PM »
LOS is always drawn within an arc of 360° if not diminished by terrain obstructions or special other things.

Yes, it is true, sorry. I forgot that rule.
But my doubt is still the same: which targets can a model (any model, not only mounted) Spot? Those in its Front Facing, or those in its Firing Arc?

Offline Lopis

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 12:21:10 PM »
You can try to spot everything in LOS, since radius for LOS is 360° for any model, if not diminished through obstacles or prone status, you can try to spot in an arc of 360°.
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Offline Pollo

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 12:21:32 PM »
you can try to spot in an arc of 360°.

I regret to say that this is not correct. As stated in section 6.1 of manual:

Quote from: UWZ manual
However, if a figure simply wants to turn around, to fire at, or Spot a model behind it, it must use an Action to do so.

So, my question remains unresolved!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 05:13:32 PM by Pollo »

Offline Lopis

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2010, 08:41:28 AM »
For Firing and turning I follow this section in6.1 as it is covered in the other sections as well, but the basic terms and rules tell me otherwise.
And even the specifics on spooting itself refer to LOS and not to movement as under 6.1.
Und logical aspects I would follow the basics and specifics and not your quoted section on movement.

1.3 Line of Sight:

A model has LOS to another model if an unobstructed line can be
drawn between them, regardless of distance. LOS is measured
from 360' of your model, unless specifically stated othewise in
the model's special rules


6.2.7 under "Making a spot check":

"If the Spotting model can draw LOS to the Concealed model, simply roll a d20...."
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Offline Pollo

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2010, 11:26:28 AM »
So, there is a contradiction between section 6.1 (turning necessary) and section 6.2.7 (turning not necessary).

Any official resolution?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 09:44:52 AM by Pollo »

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2010, 01:24:48 PM »
9.1 Line of Sight and ranged combat. A model wishing to use a fire action may do so by drawing LOS to the closest enemy within 360 degees of his base. However, a model can only fire upon a target within his front facing ( front 180 degrees).
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2010, 03:09:39 PM »
That means that if the closest enemy is not in your front arc, you must turn to face the closest enemy, spending an AC to do so.
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Offline Pollo

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 06:14:03 AM »
The contraddiction in the manual is about Spotting, not about Firing.
For Firing, you must have your enemy in your Arc of Fire. No doubt.

But for Spotting?

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2010, 08:26:07 AM »
6.1 tells you that you have to move if the target your trying to spot is not in your forward facing. 6.2.7 tells you that spotting cost 1 action and that you cant move and spot as the same action. So to spot a target you need to have it in your forward facing unless a model has a special ability that states differently.
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Offline Lopis

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2010, 02:31:57 PM »
So to spot a target you need to have it in your forward facing unless a model has a special ability that states differently.

I donīt read that out of 6.2.7....
I stick to 360° for spotting and 180° for firing
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2010, 03:44:14 PM »
But your not accounting for 6.1 which clearly states this, and noware in 6.2.7 does it state you dont have to do this.
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Offline Lopis

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2010, 12:14:26 AM »
But your not accounting for 6.1 which clearly states this, and noware in 6.2.7 does it state you dont have to do this.

I still stick to my interpretation

I think the section 6.1 is not true for the spotting part.... If not a typo than maybe a contradictory choice of words.
All the other sections about spotting refer to LOS and even for target choice it is always LOS in a 360°.
Only if it comes to firing or reacting to other actions thereīs the mention of facing....

It just doesnīt make sense to me to change that for spotting.
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Front Facing and Firing Arc for mounted troops
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2010, 04:20:44 AM »
I dont know if your from another country so i'am not trying to be insulting, But you cant say a rule is untrue because it doesn't fit your interpretation. I'll try to give an exsample: your facing the north, directly south of you is a man behind a stone fence with very little of his body exposed. My question do you just see him or do you have to turn to try to see him?  If your group plays with your interpretation and everyone agrees to that. There'e nothing wrong with it. We play it here the way i'am stating it. I cant think of to many scenarios where a model your trying to spot is not in your forward facing unless the model has a special ability like stealth, stalk, or lurk.
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